I received the following email from ATV CONNECTIONS:

Dear ATV Connection Member:

Would you like to see a new Electronic Fuel Injected ATV hit the market? Have you ever asked yourself, "Why doesn't someone make an ATV with…?" -------> Then it asked to complete a reply form online.

I have a fuel injection system for my ATV now. They already make them for the HONDA 400ex. It puts out around 5 more HP then stock and makes life simple. Can you say no more jetting!

I will take a picture and post it in the next couple days. I think they have a system for the Raptor, DS-650, and might come out with one for the banchee (not totaly sure about the banchee).

You can hook your lap-top up to it and download different programs (fuel mapping/etc.). In AZ, we have to re-jet to ride at the sinders, re-jet when we get back, re-jet for the dunes, you get the picture. Not anymore, it changes everything for you.

I just wanted to let people know that there is a fuel injection system you can get for a Honda 400EX (stock), that puts out 5 more HP and cost around a $1,000.

AZBIGDADDY

PS
They plan on marketing this fuel injection system and turbo systems for ATV's after LABOR day this year. It is a secret, but i can't keep secrets. I get the proto types ahead of time for myself. I posted pictures of my bike awhile ago with the turbo and I will add some pictures later this week with the fuel injection system.

I will be at the sinders (AZ) on Labor Day with my bike, so I am sure some of you AZ riders will be able to see it then.

 

$1000 for 5hp? That's not a very good deal.

EFI will not produce any more power than a properly tuned carburetor. This is coming from a guy that's retrofitted EFI to his older automotive vehicles, tuned extensively on them, and written software for editing Cannondale calibration maps...

EFI will typically improve driveability and economy, but won't increase HP unless there was a problem with the carburetor or if it allows other changes like more optimized intake runner design. EFI also increases the complexity and cost too much for an ATV in my opinion. Also makes it more difficult to make engine modifications because things like injector sizing, TB flow rates, fuel pump sizing, etc must be changed, which gets costly. Many EFI systems also employ proprietary interfaces & software that make it difficult for the end user to make changes to the calibration.

Many people believe that simply installing EFI will also give them a perfect mixture all the time because the EFI "self compensates", this is also a misconception - EFI systems must also be tuned much like a carburetor, they do have a certain range they can compensate for once they are tuned in (but this is usually limited to compensation for atmospheric conditions). Just like a carb, if you even change something as simple as a pipe, to get optimum performance you must "retune" the EFI's calibration.

If you ride in places where there are large atmospheric changes, then EFI just may be the hot ticket for you - However, for the bulk of the ATV riding public EFI is more a misunderstood, glorified technology than a real, beneficial gain in performance.

 

thanks for the post.

Not only did they add a fuel injection system, they replaced my carb too. That might have had something to do with the added HP. I am not a technical person (I don't even own a screwdriver), so I don't know why it added 5 HP, but I will ask them and post and answer in the next day or two.

It may, or may not be cost effective for the HP, but it makes riding in AZ simple (dunes, valley, cinders, valley, dunes, etc.)......NO JETTING!

I have two 400ex. One has a turbo on it and this one has a fuel injection system. There are programs you can down load for different conditions (stock, pipe, drag, racing, etc.). I fill find out more info about this too, I don't want to post false info....

The main idea behind the fuel injection system is to help compensate for the turbo. It is currently at 6lbs, with an intercooler. The idea is to be able to increase the boost, to get more HP from the bike.

I will get some facts behind this system from the company that makes it.

Thanks again for the post!

AZBIGDADDY

 

Cost effective HUH. When you bang down $500 for an exhaust and get 2 hp out of it you find out what cost effective really is. True ,fuel injection does not automatically increase power but it provides the basis for quick and easy tuning for changes made to the engines ignition and fuel delivery. I took carmakers almost 15 years before they really started improving fuel mileage and power and emmisions with fuel injection. My 1985 vette gets around 20mpg with its tuned port injection and the new vettes are getting almost 30 with twice the power.

 

..EFI....I wonder if the Cannon word is going to get brought up again?..lol....No its true they say EFI dont make more HP then a well tuned carb..but EFI makes start ups easy,great responce,and use a lot less gas for longer rides..[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

 

I asked why it got more horse power, they gave me a real long technical answer, I couldn't repeat if i wanted too. i asked them to emial me there answer and i will post there response when i get the emial. The fuel injection system comes with a 40mm throttle body. They said that had allot to do with the HP GAIN.

A quick thought: How much does it cost to re-jet every time? It adds up, if you are riding in different areas a lot. If you do it yourself, it takes time. IMO time is money.

Nice post about the fuel, I have a 2001 corvette and gets around 28miles to the gallon. My stupid *** Hummer (H2) gets less then half of that (around 8-10/per gallon).

It might not be worth a $1,000 to everyone, but it is worth it to me, besides how many people own a fuel injected 400ex?

I promiss to post some pictures of it in the next couple days.....


AZBIGDADDY

 

Just post the website where this wonder drug F I system is available.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

 

That goes a long way to illustrate my point - both have modern EFI - the EFI is not what's causing the gain in mileage, it's the advances in aerodynamics over the years.

Yes, a 40mm throttle body will help power just as adding a 40mm carb would.

EFI is cool, and is great in an automotive environment. I'm still not convinced it's ready for prime time on an ATV. Even after owning a couple Cannondales.

The problems with EFI on an ATV are - electrical system requirements - electric fuel pump, the current required to fire the injectors, current to power the ECU, etc.. Also needed are a fuel pressure regulator, a TPS sensor, a MAP sensor, temp sensors, a high pressure fuel filter, and a fuel return line are all also necessary. All these things add weight as well as failure points. You also lose reserve because running an electric fuel pump dry is a bad thing.

Also consider that whenever modifications are made to the engine, not only will the EFI need to be re-mapped (not a problem if they are giving you the software to do it), but if large changes are made, then the injectors will need to be replaced with larger units. This can get costly. If requirements are raised enough, a larger fuel pump will be necessary.

As far as the points made about:

Exhaust pipes - Paying $500 for a 4stroke pipe is no one's fault but your own... Pipes for 4 stroke bikes are outrageously expensive for what you get - essentially a pretty glass pack. Buy used and let someone else get bent over. I have 4 aftermarket pipes and have less than $500 in all four.

Starting - Cannondale's start notoriously hard. My carbed (FCR 39) 400EX starts 100 times easier than my Cannondale. EFI doesn't necessarily improve starting.

Fuel Economy - my 40hp 400EX gets around the same fuel economy during long races as my 40hp Cannondale. Both will burn approx a gallon an hour during an XC race. The Cannondale typically burns a touch more than my 400.

Throttle response - hard to argue that one, EFI typically does make great throttle response, but so will a well tuned carb.

I'm not an anti-technology freak. The fact is I've converted two of my autos that were carbed to EFI. My Corvette has an aftermarket Electromotive system, and one of my trucks has been fitted with a factory TPI system. I've hacked the code for the TPI system and burn my own chips as well as worked on software that allows monitoring via a laptop & calculates fuel economy from PW, injector size, etc.

I've also written software for viewing, editing, and comparing cannondale map files that's used by most cannondale enthusiasts, many on this very site.

Needless to say, I know my way around EFI.... I still don't see where the advantages of EFI outweigh the disadvantages in an ATV environment - for me anyways [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

I also want to make sure people to know that by simply installing an EFI system, you aren't doing away with tuning. Especially in an open loop system like what they're likely offering. In fact, it's likely that unless you have the exact same setup as what the company offering the EFI has, you will spend hundreds of hours monitoring and tuning the system to get it right for your application.

Just be aware of the challenges ahead if you buy an aftermarket EFI system.

 

Scrooge the raptor setup, will that work on sputtering grizzlies?

 

A quick update.

I haven't had a chance to ask the company that designed the EFI system, ALL YOUR QUESTIONS.

I live in AZ and will taking my 400ex to the dunes in San Luis Obispo this coming up weekend. I will ask them as many questions as possible this weekend. I will post pictures of my trip too and my 400ex when I get back.

I do know that they don't want anyone to know that they are making this until later this year. This isn't a couple of guys in a garage putting together some hooky system. Cannadale origanly contacted a BIG Co. out of CA who builds ECU units for indy car racing, they decided not to use that company for reasons unknown (cost is my guess). This is the same company who is building the ECU's for this EFI system.

There is a large turbo company that is going to back this system when it hits the market later this year. Once again, you are not suppose to know about this right now, but I have a big moulth and like this chat board.

I wish I had the answers to some of your questions, though I do know this conpany hasn't cut any corners so far. I am sure they know what they are doing. Before the big turbo company would put there name on the marketing side, they flew in several enginers and tore my bike apart. They had mobil trucks out the ***, along with a dyno and said this system was top notch. That's from my moulth..........

I will post some pictures as soon as I get back from my quad trip this weekend. IF you live in the Pismo area and want to see this bike, contact me at bray_pike@yahoo.com I will give you my number there.

I have been to the dunes in Mexico (boring) Glamis is great, but too hot right now. What are the dunes like in PISMO? Any info on that area (hotel,dine,night life,ATV's, etc.) would be helpful.

Thanks,

AZBIGDADDY