Yeah who would have ever thought to put IRS and a copy of my honda accords auto transmission in an atv..LOL Truly innovative, maybe next year honda will inovate 6 ply oem tires instead of tissue paper thick tires. LOL I know, i know a truly innovative thing for honda , a freaking break light... LOL what's the next innovation? Disk brakes????? LOL

Hondu is playing catch up. They have set on the myth of realibilty for years. They weren't more reliable just an engine and some wires, simple as a rock. Anything of simple design is reliable. Heck my chain saw don't break much, but no innovations. It's nice to see that hondu is following others like polaris and putting irs and auto trans in their machines, it make riding much more enjoyable. BUT, as you see the realibilty of hondu is dropping as they add more luxury to their machines. welcome out of the stone ages honda. .

 

how do you c sum1s rating?

 

Screwed up my response!

 

lol, i think HA2 is kinda lost. i can see he is tryen to warp, and put words into rockrider's mouth. when he obviously didnt say anything of the sort....lol, and when he commented about comprehension(he bloody spelled it wrong!! Reading comprehenshion is not one of your strong points, again and again now. i couldnt stop laughing. Its quite humorous when someone tries to tell a person he cant comprehend a statement, and makes such a grade 3 spelling mistake in the process....


i have three words for HA2....
hooked on phonics

 

".......im still waiting for you to practice what you preach and back your statements up with proof. you said you saw a tv show design and build a aircraft in a 100 days..............ok, relivant points? no where. how many did they produce? did they market it? legal reviews? testing? you're making this too easy for me. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]"

The source was a documentary on the History channel about military aircraft in WWII. This source is familier to everyone (not like your immediate family) and demonstrates that it is possibe to produce an entire aircraft from conception to flying in 100 days. Even you should realize that a TRX250R could be produced more quickly then that since it was based in large part on the ATC250R and that Honda is a car company and would have a few people with the understanding of front end geometry.

"Mitchell receives new vehicles, such as automobiles, snowmobiles and yes they have received QUADS. one of their MAIN focuses is writing REPAIR MANUALS in both hard copy and electronic form. They rely on data already written or taking apart, rebuilding and documenting vehicles directly from the manufacturer, on site. i have personally seen these rebuild areas and the workers in process. they know EXACTLY the magnitude of what kind of engineering goes into vehicles on all scales. But I guess me visiting the facilities, seeing this with my own eyes and having family members working their for the past several years, isnt good enough for you. you'd rather take what you saw on TV...........excuse my while i bite my lip so i dont burst with laughter."

Good for Mitchell. Why can't they produce repair manuals that cover the entire duration of an ATV's production?


"I work in marketing for a nationwide corporation and have an idea of what it takes to market to the retail (public) end of the business. You rely on your TV and shows that are funded by the party being documented. hmmm"

And this is why you have the insider knowledge to Honda's production and marketing decisions going back 17 years? Why didn't they intro the 450R before Yamaha? They had the engine, you know the CRF450 that was released in 2001 a full 4 years after the original YZ400F.

"Marketing alone would take several months to even get rolling to the public for something on the magnitude of the Honda Motor Company level. Business to consumer, business to business....now where have i heard this before.......maybe where i make my living."

Sure when it comes to software, the market was already there for the 250R, 250X and 450R.

"when are you going to explain your, "They let someone else do the R&D and then wait a year and introduce a model that is better. Honda did this with the 250R, the 250X and probably the 450R, but that remains to be seen" statement? you're running out of excuses and quite frankly, im beginning to think you are saying these things towards honda out of pure hatred."

I have no hatred towards Honda. I used to own a 250X and a couple XR's. I think Honda makes the most reliable machines, if I didn't I would not have bought a Honda snowblower. But they do not innovated in the ATV market like they once did. They heydays are long gone. As far as R&D I already explained to you what I meant by that. Re-read my past posts. It is much easier to build a quad that surpasses the competition when you (honda) can buy it, test and anaylize it and then make your quad better. A third grader should be able to grasp that concept.

"i like debate, but only if the opponent can stay on track and support valid points."

Holy shiz, take your own advice! You are not debating you have changed this into a pissing contest and keep taking my posts out of context. It is getting very old.

 

HA2....I cannot believe you take solid facts and try too skew them too make Honda look different...LMAO! Rockrider, everone else understands your posts....they are very clear and hard too misunderstand...[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]. Honda is a follower....they are following now. They introduction for the 450 was a drawing of a YFZ in red...ROFLMAO! HA2, you are Hondas tool. Let me explain something....testing and design is just that...testing and design. When a product is introduced too the public, when you can walk into a shop and buy it....only then is the product reality. There have no-doubt been 100's of different types of atv's developet and scrapped behind the scenes, but it's not realistic if it's not available for the public.

 

umm, im not talking about the 450, im talking about the 250R quad and LT. The 450 is about something none of us have seen yet.


Rockrider,
Their is NO RELIVANT POINTS from a mass production standpoint and a MILITARY CONTRACTED development of a plane. they take on completely different standards and arent subject to similiar business requirements on any level. the military wants something done, they get it done and get it out no questions asked. Honda.......American Military, not exactly a good comparison.

Mitchell knows their is more money in automobiles than quad data publication. its that simple. their expeirence with quads and other motor vehicles is still vast and you are yet to say anything that proves them to be irrelivant to the topics at hand.


I thought you said you didnt believe they copied anything? Are you saying that Honda can buy Suzuki's (just and example) and find weak spots and correct them on their own quad?

This makes zero sense. Where talking about MARKETING, not if their is a market to market to. we already know their is a market. Marketing consist of promotions, advertising which would entail KNOWING the product before doing anything, pricing models, and constant legal scrutiny. these things take time and constant adjustments with delaying release dates and fluxuating manufacturing costs (raises MSRP). and again this is only one thing out of several other things a manufacturer has to do to come up with any product.

this is like the 3rd time ive told you, IT HAS TO DO WITH BUSINESS. nothing to do with knowing Honda's inside scoop. if you need to believe that someone has to be on the inside to trust their opinion then i'm going to have to ask you where you were in 1985.

gary,
this just supports that it takes a lot of time to develop a quad in its design stage.

 

The topic is "IS HONDA A FOLLOWER"...so the 450r is relevent. Is I stated, the 450r is a follower behind the YFZ. WE HAVE SEEN THE 450, IT"S A DRAWING THAT IS A POSER LOOK-ALIKE TOO THE YFZ.

Explain too me why it matters if the design process is long or short....since, WE, the consumer will never know how long the design process took anyway? Only what we are told. What if I told you the Raptor was in the design process behind the scenes before any other quad.....you have proof that the Raptor was not?

 

In the case of the 250R and the LT it was only a year spand in difference of release. I cant comment on the 450 because thier isnt anything set in stone as far as release dates, only unvailing dates.

 

Jeez, I've been scanning all these posts and can't believe all the bickering, who's first/who's best etc. etc. The cycle of products wether it is cars, motorcycles or quads is the reason we can now enjoy newer, better products. I mean really, through the 90's everyone followed Yamaha in the performance department, then everyone trailed Honda when the 400ex arrived, then it was Suzuasaki, to lesser degree Polaris and the more fringe players Bomb and Cannondale. At any given point in time all but one manufacturer is "behind" the leader of the moment, until they choose to update or replace a model to spend their 15 minutes at the top. The only thing certian here is WE ALL WIN! regardless of brand loyalty. In 1995 if I were to say to any performance atv enthusiast that in 2003 we'd have more performance models than ever to choose from and all anyone can do is bicker about who's first, who's a follower and why isn't it here yet, they'd probably crack me in the head and say I should be happy to consistantly have new choices. On Sept 10 most questions will be answered, and unless every rider has the oppertunity to ride every perfoemance atv, opnions on which is best will always vary and forever be inconclusive.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-cool.gif[/img]