yes i am a hardcore honda fan, but i am fair. i believe the trx450r is a better buy than the yfz450. i believe this because i have old honda's that are 15-17 years old and still run flawlessly. the engine in a honda is extremely reliable and durable. also the honda does have good power, like its not lacking in power. even though the yamaha may have more power doesn't mean it is better, i have never actually seen a yamaha outlast a honda (except maybe their 2 strokes). also the trx450r weighs 350lbs and doesn't have a starter, battery and all that extra junk; which weighs about 14 lbs. they probably used that extra 14 lbs to strenghten the frame or something, or maybe not. it does have a higher fuel reserve which is nice and does cost $400 cheaper. the trx450r may be like another 250r but then so is the yfz450. they're pretty much the same bike all in all. i wouldn't be scared to buy either one but i am leaning towards the honda because of their known reliablility and durability. yamaha got their bike out first right way before honda did, but honda held back probably to find any flaws and problems that could go wrong and fixed them. just because its out first doesn't mean its better or worse but can often lead to problems caused by haste in the company, or maybe not.

 

I try to be fair as well, and I like the new Honda. But to address a few of your points.

I've said it before, but the reliability issue is a first hand thing. I have Yamaha's and have seen Yamaha's 10-15 years old that are still running strong and new Honda's break down on the trail.

As for the weight, the YFZ weighs 350lbs as well, with the battery and junk.

And about Yamaha just producing something and throwing it to the public without doing extensive testing (I've seen it said many times on these boards), how do ya'll know that? How long did Yamaha work on the YFZ? A year? Two years? Four years? I don't know. If somebody does have inside information, let us know! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

 

yeah that brings up a good point because i don't know exactly how long they have been researching and testing. wish i did have insider info though.

what i mean about the trx weighing 350 lbs is that when they took off the electric start it was about 340 and they simply added more weight to the frame or something.

i don't mean to be rude, because i am biased

 

yamaha has been working on the YFZ since 1999 when the YZF400 was released. But that doesn't really mean much. companies start all their projects out very small with little manpower, and just work on the concepts for a long time figuring out where the new product fits in to the market and how much they'll invest in the product... then finally they start building protypes and testing them (I think the final prototypes for the YFZ were first being tested as recently as the begining of the year) and that's when the real development begins. then they start working hard getting all the parts lined up, making the final designs and sending them off... that's the period that actually decides the quality of the product and it's personality.

then when they release the product the testing and development begins again when feedback comes back to the engineers from out in the fields and on the track. this is when the second year models are developed and the problems are fixed. this is an on-and off stage that can continue as long as the model exists. In this stage, The developers keep an eye on the aftermarket, the racing circuit (if it is a racing model), the competition and compile feedback from dealers.

does that answer your questions?

 

I hate when people say that hondas are not reliable. Do some people think that someone just said one day "all hondas are reliable" and rumors spread? no, it has been proven day after day. Honestly, I don't give a sh*t if you saw a couple of hondas break down. Honda is, and has been proven to be the most relable engine manufacturer. I won't say that Yamaha's are not reliable, but i will say that hondas are more reliable. I've owned a yamaha and a honda. Hondas last years.

Spade, as for honda two strokes, even they are more relaible than yamahas. Look at the 250r...

I wouldn't bash yamaha, I like yamaha, almost as much as honda. As for which would be the better buy? The 450r of course. I know what honda is capable of and they plan to hit it big with this one. If it's second best to the yami this year, next year it will be improved, with maybe an aluminum frame, ya know, the one they are working on right now. They wanted to have it on this 450r but they didn't get all the problems fixed, so they put on it's current frame (still good), and next years model should be ready with an aluminum frame. Trust me, I have a reliable source...