MDE3, I think people don't understand that facts like the ones you stated are proven. Everybody always wants to get their hands on something new (z400, KFX400) for some reason. Then Honda gets the blame for not coming out with anything new for a couple of years. What people need to realize is that when you have a good thing you don't need to fix it. I agree that a stock 400ex could use more power, but so can all the other 400's out there.

It sucks when you state something and all people do is say "you're just loyal to the ex, don't get defensive". Well I happen to like mine and I have no problem owning one. Updated is not always better.

 

go for the z, much better quads in all areas, same price, and sharp design [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

 

Same Price? Out here in CA I can(and did) get a 400ex for $5000 out the door(includes set up, sales tax and all other BS charges they add on). The z400 at the same place was 600 bucks more. As far as which is better, I'm sure this Kid will never know the difference so get what ever you like, screw what other people think. When I was deciding between the the Z and EX it was for my wife, I was tired of here taking my Banshee out for rides. She picked the EX because of the Color!!! She loves riding the older, slower bike. The point to all this dribble is, get what ever makes you happy and ride the **** out of it!!!!!

 

That actually makes more sense than you intended.

The warrior is an excelent trail machine and without a doubt the most durable quad yamaha has made to date. Even neglected (like so many are) they just keep going and going.

Prob wouldnt be a bad choice at all for a younger rider on a budget especially if looking for a great price on a quad that is a few years old. You can find them around here (and everthing is expensive around here) 2000.00-4000.00 for 98-02 models.

I have an old 89 warrior and though its no comparison to my fully prepped 440ex its still a lot of fun to ride and starts everytime you hit the button, and that means someting for a 15 year old quad.

 

Some good points even if the $$$ may be a little over stated etc.

Now for those who care to read thru all of this [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

I honestly believe that for the average rider who will be trail riding etc any of the machines discussed would be fine.

The real differences between the Z400 and 400Ex are not all that much in stock form. There is a small price difference on the new machines and the Zuki (and all the clones) saved expense in the frame area to recoup the extra expense of the liquid cooling and reverse. The Z400 has a limited advantage in performance and mostly in the higher rpm range and a slightly better suspension action (but who rides stock suspension anyhow).

I would have to suggest to a trail rider who doesnt intend to race competitivly who is bent on buying new to look over both quads carefully and weigh the pro's and con's of what he thinks is important to him. THis could be price, liquid cooling, reverse, reliability, color, power deliver, avail aftermarket parts, ride, maintainence or many other issues. Its your $$$ so make up your own mind rather than get what someone else likes or suggests.

Now if that same potential buyer isnt looking for or cant afford new then things change a lot due to the true bargains out there for the used 400EX. There are plenty of stock and slightly modded models all around the country going for insane prices. When compared to the over $6000.00 many local dealers are getting for the z400 new out the door buying a well maintained 99-01 400Ex for around $3000.00+ is a steal and even more so if the owner added 1000.00-2000.00 in aftermarket goodies that you would be paying for above the price of either one new. Everything is relative so be sure you know what you want, and I for one dont plan on buying any new quads when there are so many "deals" on hardly used ones.

When we all start putting these quads under a microscope there are many differences and many of those will not be seen or understood by the typical atv buyer anyway so as one member said earlier (and good advice also) buy what you like, and especially if your main intent is trail riding and having fun.

Remember when comparing these quads stock to stock there are a lot of riders who are alienated because they dont run/ride stock machines as couldnt care about the minute differences between the stock quads because they will be customising or modifiying them to suit there needs and the little differences will be completely shadowed by the large gains from these mods.

If the buyer intends on racing the quad XC or MX then a lot changes. Though the fact that Zuki may have copied a lot of the frame design and other parts of the EX they are not 100% the same by any means as stated before. The 400ex has been proven and with limited mods will endure the stresses of competitive racing. Not that the Z400 isnt a good race quad because it is (look at the success Gust has had) but for the average amature racer it "appears" that there will be more expense to keep it going. Is this from design or just the simplicity of the EX? I dont know for sure but I have seen the work required to keep them both going and the expense also. We have to remember that racers will be replacing most of the parts that were put under the microscope earlier so maost of the debated items are no longer an issue. Who cares which machine had a slight advantage in stock suspension when you just dumped $600.0-3000.00 on shocks!!At this point the rider with the better talent or better fine tuned suspension gets the advantage.

I have said this before on many forums but will point this out once more. What does the small minute differences make to you after you consider that more than one professional rider has left the entire a class in the dust on a stock machine? I have seen this happen more than once and were talking stock with at most a silencer v/s fully aftermarket suspended and modded quads.

With all that said I will offer that I have rode both these machines enough to know that in stock form I am not thrilled with either though they are fine machines you just get very spoiled after riding aftermarket suspensions and this is where your money is well spent. Would you rather have a brand new whatever that beats you up and wants to roll on every corner or one that glides over the whoops like on a cloud and squats into the turn blasting a roost as you power out of it? So my point is to look at the big picture since you wont be smiling much if you spend all your $$$ on the new machine and then get beat by better riders on lesser ones or just the average joe blowing by you on his ole 400ex with the suspension you now cant afford.

Did anyone get the idea??????????

 

GREAT post 440ex026, I was going to quote it, but it was really d*mn long, lol! Thats longer than most of my reports for school...but I would definately suggest reading it if anyone is trying to decide on a new quad and they are relatively new to the sport.



I Wish

 

Great post and good advice.

Just for fun though........I added up the parts and some of the labor(outside only) spent on that 250X/350X conversion, and was about $1500 light at $5000 from what would actually have to be spent on that quad to make the same levels of upgrades as we had on the 250X conversion. The engine was a TC racing conversion with a reinforced case, piston, porting, cam, custom designed intake, full TC/Supertrapp, cdi, axle, swing arm, a-arms, Elkas, steering damper and stem, pro tapers, steel braided lines, bead locks, holeshots, chain tensioner, antifade.....etc. etc.

You would most likely have a better quad with all that done (meaning the z 400). The cost of purchasing the engine and doing the original conversion is not included in this cost........the above might serve as a good example of how NOT to do it...........(actually I ended up with about $6300 in the bike due to the fact that about 1/2 of this was done before I purchased it)

So when I said "the cost of a stock quad plus $4,000 - $5,000" I was not exagerating. I did not mean that when spending that kind of money you would only be equal, but that to get the quad to it's potential, and reach the same proportional perfomance, that is what you would have to spend.

 

Huh? Are you saying you only spent $1500 and got all that?? Hardly. Or are you saying you spent $5000 for all that? More like it. So? If you would have spent that $5000 on the Z, it would KILL the 250X. I'm not sure I'm seeing the point.

 

yeah, i agree with the person that said warriors are good trail machines, i like how much ground travel it has in the back, like how it hits anything 2 inches tall, i also like how it gives the feeling of riding a stone with wheels. I owned a warrior, and i hated it. I had it for 2 weeks, half spent parked, then i sold it.

and for the stupid kid who wants a 400, get a 90 because if you even get 250ex the arm pulling power will toss you over backwards.

 

What I am saying is that I bought the used 250X/350X - which already had some work done - for $2300. Then I spent another $4000 on it, totalling around $6300.......(including the price of the used quad) To start with a new stock Z 400 and get to the same performance levels I stilll say you would have to spend at least an additional $4000. The actual amount spent on this 250X in aftermarket work was at least $6500 total, about $2500 of which was done before I got it.

I am not sure spending $4000 on a z would qualify it to "kill" that 250/350X conversion, probably bring it about equal. That quad was raced against heavily modded 440 ex's, 250r's 426's etc., and was in the front half of the pack in both mx and flat track, with a very inexperienced rider. Head to head with a "stock Z" that 250X/350X was faster in a straight line(at least in acceleration to "useable" top speed for mx), and much faster on a track.

If I would have puchased the Z new, and spent the same amount on it as had been spent totally by me and others on this 250X/350X conversion since it was started, the total cost of the mods would probably exceed $6500, and that would make a pretty nice machine, which would then have the cost of the z in the $12,000 range.., and that should definitely be a much better all around machine by a significant margin.

My point was that you can look around and buy a modded 400ex or similar machine, with much of the same work done, and save quite a bit of money. Once properly modded all of these machines will be a joy to drive and play with. Within a year or two the same thing will probably be true about the 400z or it's clones. But for now you will have more choices at better prices with a 400 ex. Notice I am NOT recommending you start with a 250X or 300 ex and follow in my footsteps.

Machines with serious suspension work done are much safer and more comfortable to ride, and if it is "the good stuff" ie properly set up high end shocks on decent a-arms and swing arm, one of these units will give you more bang for your buck than any stock machine can hope to.........whether you ride trail, or race mx or xc. Until you ride one that has been properly done it's hard to appreciate how big a difference there really is.

Sorry if the first post was confusing.