Well thanks I'm taking it in today to the yamaha dealer and see what the hell there going to tell me. Also see how much it's gonna cost me. I order an LTE exhaust might change it or sell it.

"THE PUPPY WHO WANTS TO PLAY WITH THE BIG DOGS"

 

hey dont forget springs if you do the stage 2 or its gonna go boom. hot cams even recomends it and ive seen it first hand. Not bashing just trying to help It rips with both cams but be carefull

 

Is it true the Stage one is not good with a big bore kit?

 

Stage 1 cams are fine with a big bore, they are just a little counter productive. If you put money into a big bore, you want to make more power. stage 1 cams are designed for mid to top end pickup. Using a Stage 1 cam in a big bore application is usually accompanied with an 11:1 piston to make a milder, more trail friendly upgrade.

 

So would you recomend a stage 2 on the bike in my sig.?

 

If I were you I would get a stage 1 cam. The stage 2 focuses on top ends gains for a powerband higher in the rev range. After that, save your pennies for a 440 or 465 kit and some carbs.

 

I have a 416 with a JE 11:1 piston, ported and polished head with a stage 1 Hotcam. I love it. It seems to have plenty of power on topend as well as low & mid range. I didn't get the stage 2 cam because it's recommended to upgrade the rockers and springs. You can look at the stock cam and the stage 1 and tell there's a big difference in profile. The one thing I didn't like about the stage 2 is the lift is lower on it that the stage 1 (9.0mm vs 8.8mm). The stage 2 has more duration which is why it's a topend power builder and that puts more stress on the springs because the valves are open longer.

 

Maybe things have changed, I don't know. I havn't gotten to ride my beloved 440 since august[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]. I have been riding my grizzly, which, has been great for what I have been doing(hunting, creek riding, mudding). Oh well, bout got it going again! Here is what a hotcams tech told me. Keep in mind, their big push is DROP IN.



Hi Brad,
The stage 2 cam in a stock bore, stock compression 400 will loose a little on the bottom end, but has very good gains in the mid and top. When people have the 440 kit with higher compression, it takes the usable power, and torque and moves it lower in the RPM range. So a the stage 2 in a stock motor will loose bottom, and a stage 2 in a 440 with higher compression will have very good bottom end. The 440 motor needs a lot more cam to breathe than a 400. If a person put a stage 1 in a 440, it will have very big gains in the low end, ok gains in the mid, and go sort of flat on the top end. As far as the rockers, you should never use hardened rockers with our cams. The cam companies that recommend, or require hardened rockers, are stock cams that have been hard welded, and ground to their specs. That makes their cams harder than the stock rockers, and the cam ends up chewing up the rockers. In our case we manufacture our own cams to our specs, that have the same hardness then the stock cam. Using hardened rockers has absolutely nothing to do with the larger lift and duration of a cam, it has to do with the hardness of the cam. If a person were to put hardened rockers on one of our cams, the rockers would chew up the cam (the reverse effect). The only reason to worry about rockers would be if your stock ones were worn out, then they would need to be replaced with OEM rockers.

As far as adjusting the rockers, once you have it apart it will all become pretty clear to you. Go to www.hotcamsinc.com and click on instructions, that will help with installation, and rocker adjustment. The Valve lash settings are on a cam card that is included in the box that the cam came in, or on the website http://www.hotcamsinc.com/catalog.asp#TRX400S2-A then click on spec card. If you have any other questions let me know.

Thanks,
Sean Johnson
Hot Cams Inc
515-402-8000

 

Just a note on the adverised lifts of the cams, there wrong [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

The stage1 does NOT have 9.0mm lift. This is why I swapped to the stage2 as this engine needed more lift.

I tried to look at the cam card but I sent it with the cam when I got rid of it etc, but I deffinately remember it was not the 9mm advetized but was like 8.6 or 8.8 etc

 

Ok some info on the cam specs.


___________ lift in---------lift exh----- dur in --- dur ex

Hot cam st1-- 9.0m/354 _ 9.0/354 _ 246 _ 246 *

Hot cam st2-- 8.8/346 __ 8.6/338 _ 254 _ 254 *

WB all around-- 341 ___ 335 ______ 265 _ 265

Web 450/451-- 350 ___ 345 ___ 280/256*_ 280/256*
+ WB track cam
GT thunder and
others too

* measured at .05 duration.


____________________________________________-

So theres the specs on the cams discussed, and you can see that there are some simialarities and differences. Sorry I dont have the duration spec on the white bro's all around cam @ 050 but you can still comapare to the others with both measurements listed etc.

Whats the difference in how they perform? I may not be the right one to be addressing this but in general thinking added lift allows additional fuel air mix to enter the combustion chanmber, and added duration allows even more from the valves being open longer. Now when operating at lower rpm the engine doesnt need lots of duration since its not spinning as fast etc but does need lift to allow more "mix" to get in etc, but as the engine speeds increase the duration becomes more important as the time allowed for the "mix" to enter the engine is less or decreased and the increased duration allows more time.

For lower end torque it would be benficial to have additional lift with a lower amount of duration but the duaration still needs to be able to feed the engine enough of the "mix" to satisfy it at higher rpm etc.

A engine set up for top end would be very critical to the amount of duration, and though still needing lots of lift it will not need or be able to use as much as a engine set up for more bottom end. This is because at higher rpms there is less time to move the "mix" and also the valves themselves.

Not sure if that makes complete sense to everyone (or if its saying exactly what I am LOL) but I wanted to get the basic idea across so you could better understand this without having to learn all about cams. Anyone with some info to add etc please do so.

As a side note I have tried the HC stage1 and it performed well but was not allowing enough lift or duration for my engine set up, then I tried the stage2 and it was a better performer for this engine, but did give up a little bottom end compared to the stage1.

I had purchased a web450-451 or WB track cam to install on the engine this month so I could compare the difference in performance to the stage2 hotcam with very close specs. I unfortunately will not be installing this cam (it is going to be put up for sale on ebay or ? make offers pm or email ) as I have recently picked up another Web#479 that has a large increase in lift but less duration over the others tested, and should perform as I am looking for it to etc.

Now I will not be able to give you a fair comparison on the performance diff between the HC st2 and WB track cams but I will follow up later on about the #479.

Hope this helps answer some questions on "which cam" etc.