I have a 2000 QuadMaster right now. It's for sale because I don't like the belt drive. I like the automatic concept of the Rubicon (automatic with no belt to get wet), but it seems that Honda is really lagging in some areas and charging a lot more money. I'm looking to buy a 2001 QuadRunner 500. Here is why: front disc brakes, semi-independent rear suspension, selectable 2WD and 4WD, and very stable (low center of gravity), and about $1200 less. Dis-advantage: it's a 5 speed. Can you guys point out some advantages of the Rubicon? I have always liked Honda products, but it seems they just aren't keeping up in a lot of areas. I do like their new transmission concept though. Thanks.

 

"You pays yer money and yer takes yer cherce."

I'm amazed at the show-stopping, turning-point importance of disk-vs-drum brakes to some.

I believe properly sealed, designed, and adjusted drum brakes are adequate for utility quads. I even remember when all popular production automobiles had drum brakes on all four wheels.

Now, if someone runs screaming from the room at the thought of drum brake-induced deceleration, or if drum brakes are contrary to their religious persuasion, those individuals would be happier with a marque other than Honda.

I don't gainsay disk brake operational advantages (e.g., lower weight, fade resistance, no continuing adjustment required); however, the contrast is not a show-stopper for me. If this issue rises to that level for others, no problem--vive le difference, fortunately disk brake-equipped quads are available for those customers, I'm glad to say. The bottom line for me is, when applying the brakes, does the vehicle reliably slow down or stop within a workable distance? Fact of life: Rubicons have drum brakes.

Just my opinion--every quad buyer must assign his own weight to the features (or lack thereof) of quads he's considering.

Tree Farmer

 

WVTman: Here are some advantages of the Rubicon compared to any brand. Engine mounted sideways for less drive line power lose. Dry sump engine to lower ride hieght and give it good ground clearance. LCD screen is second to none. There intigrated footpegs offer some of the best mud protection out there. The transmisson offer high, low range and selectable reverse on the same shifter WITH TOURQE mode, PERFORMANCE mode and EPSmode. Offer the rider the ability for full auto or ESP mode in any sub tranny mode(high, low). ESP mode doesn't need the driver to take their hand of throttle to shift, so there is no loss of momentum or wheel spin. No cluth to hurt. Solid axle is a plus to some also, no loss of rear end ground clearance under load, more stable. (some may disagree, it's just some opinoins vs others) Drum brakes also CAN be a plus, but that is a opinion point also. I would just like to see where Honda is the one lacking in technology. You leave brakes or in some cases suspension travel out of it, Honda has some of the most technological ATV out there. However then if Brakes and travel count against it, the weight is a major PLUS compared to other 500's. Might add resale is no comparision. But if you feel like Honda isn't the best for you, by all means don't buy one. Buy what suits your needs.

 

A COUPLE OF DAYS AGO I WENT TO MY DEALER FOR A NEW ATV.I WENT TO GO SPECFICLY TO BUY A QUADMASTER OR 500 QUADRUNNER.I TEST DROVE EACH ONE AND WAS IMPRESSED WITH BOTH(ENOUGH TO BUY ONE).BUT MY DEALER STARTED TALKING ABOUT THE RUBICON AND ITS FEATURES,SO I DECIDED TO JUMP ON IT FOR A TEST DRIVE.IMMEDIATLEY I WAS SHOCKED AT HOW THE ENGINE WAS SO QUIET,IT DID NOT REVIVE UP IT JUST TOOK OFF AND CONTROLL WAS GREAT.I WENT HOME THAT NIGHT AND COMPARED THE RUBY TO OTHERS AND THE NEXT DAY I BOUGHT HOME A BRAND NEW OLIVE HONDA RUBICON.ONLY 40 MILES ON IT AND RUNNING,I'M VERY PLEASED.

 

Tree Farmer,
writes that he can remember when popular automobiles had drum brakes front and rear.

I can remember when cars weighed 5000lbs and got 10 miles to the gallon.I remember when cars ignition systems depended on points and condenser,ect, ect.My point you ask?Times change,so does technology.Its my opionion that it is time for Honda to switch to disks.

Im one of the guys that refuse to buy a quad with drum style brakes.[I mud alot]Even in the Honda Forums, you see problems listed with drum style brakes being contaminated with mud/debree.Some guys feel good with drum style brakes,thats perfectly ok with me,however,I've personally had nothing but problems with drum style brakes on my past quads,im done with drums.

The tranny on the Ruby sounds like a great one,however,it is a first yr quad and problems have allready arose in the Honda Forums on the Ruby allready.I dont care for drum brakes.I dont care for a 4x4 quad that is allways in 4x4.I like the option of switchable 2wd-4wd.The seat on the Ruby is very small in comparison to the Polaris Sportsman or Xplorer.Ground clearance is less on the Ruby to.

Now,in time,I may give up mudding.Than,and only than,I may opt for a quad with drum style brakes,BUT,by than,all manufacturers will have allready made the switch to Disk brakes .====Bill

 

Disk brakes, then, Bill Ciliberti, become your "litmus test." That's cool; you're entitled to your preference.

Others may have different litmus tests. For example, some customers may reject quads with automatic transmissions whose belt drives are "slippery when wet;" others don't find this characteristic a break point. Some may consider a quad descending hills in 2WD only unacceptable; others may consider this characteristic of no consequence. Some ATV buyers might insist on separate front and rear brakes; others may accept a single brake lever.

While you consider disk brakes superior in a mud environment, I believe properly-sealed drum brakes have an edge there; also, Honda seals better than most. That's just my opinion; yours is as good or better.

Whether disk or drum brakes, ATVs are retarded by friction between rotating metal surfaces and stationary fiber; for typical utility quad applications, either design choice is acceptable to me--both approaches are capable of slowing down and stopping a quad. Other design and performance characteristics are more important than disk or drum brakes in my choice of ATV.

Tree Farmer

 

All very good input. I appreciate your guys honesty. However, I must say to be honest, I can't see paying such a big price difference for fewer features. Disc brakes is only one of the pluses I see with the Suzuki. As Tree Farmer points out, I think separate front and rear brakes is also an advantage that bikes like the AC don't have (don't know about the Rubicon). It is just another added dimension of controlability. Anyway, thanks again.

 

I have had my Rubicon for a while now, and each time I ride I am more satisfied with the bike. With the computer management system, it always is providing maximum HP or maximum torque. If you are running along at 50 MPH and let off and slow to 40 MPH, and then get back on the throttle, the pull is there. There is no hesitation or lag to wait for the RPM of the engine to build again. The computer adjusts the gear you are in and keeps the engine at the peak of the HP or torque curve.
I came to a vertical dirt "step" that a bulldozer had made. It was approximately 3 feet vertically straight up. I would never have tried it on my 300. But, I tried it, expecting it to want to flip back over. I got my front wheels up against the base and gave it throttle. The front wheels climbed up and as they hit the edge at the top, the rear wheels hit the bottom of the step. That is when I expected it to want to tip back. It didn't. The front tires broke over the ledge and I leaned forward. The front tires pulled as the belly of the bike slid along with the rear wheels suspended in air. The fronts both pulled until the rear tires hit the edge of the top of the ledge and I was on top. It seemed too easy, so I did it several more times. I was surpised, but pleased. I guess the longer wheelbase helped and the light weight of the machine and rider skill (well maybe not the latter ).

 

TF,
your point is well taken and understood.I based my opionion on the drum brake issue with past experiences.Others may have had bad experiences with the 'wet belt' thing that you mentioned in the earlier post,even though I personally have had no problems with the belt thing.Bad experiences can make a person like or dis-like certain options,that dont make em all bad though.===Bill

 

Bill; I rarely touch this "Brake "issue but it is one in which I have had a lot of first hand expierience. Tree Farmer made an excellent statement when he included the statment"properly adjusted"properly Sealed" drum brakes.
Well, being one who has worked on Quads for some years, I can say Honda has the best drum setup. HOWEVER, the sad truth is a lot of owners of these Drum equiped Quads do not know how to and do not care to learn how to adjust their brakes, this is a non-issue with disc, when disc wear out they will let you know it by their sound and regardless of how far you drive them they will still stop you, I have seen them worn through the metal backing of the pads and wearing on the actual caliper piston to stop,that is worn out brakes!!!!
I have ridden too many drum equiped Quads with NO BRAKES which is what you get when you do not adjust drum brakes. I know first hand of many injuries and 2 deaths here near me (one was a young cousin which my wife had the misfortune of witnessing)which were the result of NO BRAKES situations on drum brake equiped Quads. I know, I know, it was the responsibility of the owners to make certian that they had brakes but the fact is TO MANY owners don't. Then they or their kids end up getting hurt when they crash. I know I came very near to hurting one guy when his NO BRAKE equiped 300 crashed into the back of my Quad a couple of years back, He claimed he didn't need them he could "downshift to slow down" try that in a panic situation. Nobody's that fast. Needless to say I was hot after he hit me but lucky for him it did no damage to my machine. He called me the following week to replace his brakes and learn to adjust them himself. He was pleasantly surprised to learn how simple it is.
Changing the pads is another issue in the Drums versus disc fight but I'll save that till later.
Sorry for the rambling but this issue hits close to home for me.