I realize it may be early to tell yet, but how do these two bikes stack up against each other. I am mainly interested in power, acceleration, and most of all bottom end torque and raw pulling ability. Pulling heavy "dead weight" is very important to me (moose hunting). I currently have an 01 450ES and I am extremely satisfied with it's overall strength and abilities, but I am trying to determine if one of these 500's would be that much better, in order to justify spending the money they want to upgrade. I did drive an 04 Rubicon and was not impressed with the overall feel of it. My 450 felt peppier and seemed to accelerated harder, maybe I am just to used to the feel of the true manual transmission. Even when I put the Rubicon in the manual shift mode, it was not the same as mine. I like good strong acceleration through each gear with each crisp shift. To be honest, my 450 seemed to provide that better than the Rubicon. Howver, like I said, raw pulling power is the most important to me, and I'm not really interested in moving up to larger cc's, especially ones made by other manufactures. Does anyone have any seat time spent on these bikes yet, that can compare the two accurately?

 

While I am a little partial, you should line up the 450 with the rubicon to get a true comparison. My rubicon out pulls my buddies AC500i manual (until about 55mph when I start topping out, his is good for about 65 mph), but his machine does 'feel' stronger.

I do not think there is a better transmission for pulling than the hydro. If so, tractors, bobcats, bulldozers, etc would have belts and manuals???

 

Actually,
Tractors do have "manuals" I've got 3 of them. 2 john deere's and a Massey. Bobcat's aren't meant for pulling either, atleast I've never seen anyone pulling anything with one. They are normally used for loading stuff, and excavating stuff, etc. therefore they require an excellent hydraulic pump/system, therefore it only makes sense that they have a hydraulic transmission, which also enables them to change direction from forward to reverse rapidly when loading, without the inconvenience of changing gears. This holds true for dozers as well, except they obviously push stuff rather than load, or pull. Many loader tractors have shuttle transmissions in them along with the gears, which allows them to function like a hydro, for ease of going forward to reverse. Backhoes are also like this. None of your general excavation equiptment is designed to "pull" so to speak. Dump trucks, and your everyday avarage "Peterbuilt" are disgned to pull, and the last time I checked, they have several "gears". Nothing will start to move a "dead weight" from a dead stop like a geared transmission. When you are locked in a bull low first gear, there is nothing to give, unlike a belt that can slip. Once the load is rolling the belt probably works okay.

 

I haven't ridden either yet. The decision would be simple for me. I would buy a manual shift. The only reason to consider the Rubi (in my eyes) is because of the transmission. They both have the same exact look and they are both 500's. (even though the Rubi has a few more cc's.) Why pay a lot more money unless a person really wants the auto/es on the Rubi? I would pick a 475cc semi-auto shift.

 

From what I have read in this and other forums, the 450S has more bottom end grunt in 1st gear than the Rubicon does. So I am sure the new 05 Foreman with a bigger engine has more grunt than the Rubicon.

That being said, I actuall think either machine is up to your tasks.

Feb 2005 ATV Action magazine has a nice article on the new 05 Foreman.

 

The Rubicon style tranny does take some getting used to. Besides styling and a bit of "feel", I don't think either machine is drastically different from its predecessor. If you like the 450ES, and it's doing what you want it to just fine, I suggest sticking with the Foreman line.

 

I'd stick with the forman line, hard to beat a manual box for reliability and for work. You'll also get front disc brakes on the new bike.