QUOTE**the question of reliability aside, not every 'enthusiast' is foaming at the mouth for part time gadgets to off-set what may be an undesireable platform to them...........or stroke their ego
END OF QUOTE**

Nor is every enthusiast looking for an 'whinny' automatic tranny[Rubicon] that feeds off of nothing larger than a 500cc engine as a feature that they alone can admire,while the same time,forgeting all about the rest of the features that would make this tranny and ATV a better overall package in the long haul.

Is the tranny on the Rubicon cutting edge?Perhaps,but the rest of the ATV does not appeal to the real ATV enthusiasts of today that are looking for a full featured ATV.

 

I guarantee that Honda sold more Rubicons in 2004 than Suzuki sold Vinsons, auto and manual combined...

 

you have lost any credibility

Isn't that nice. Real enthusiast such as who? People that are obsessed with something they don't have?

the real 'enthusiasts' are open minded enough to understand why other 'enthusiasts' desire or appreciate different features

Did you get fired from Honda? There is no masking your bias. Do you realize you have 3 times as many posts in Honda as you do in Suzuki this month, and they're all the same? I thought a real enthusiast would be more interested in what they ride than what others ride.

I'm hoping this is just a September thing, because its gotten old.

 

I certainly dont need YOU to tell me about MY credability..I have over 1000 students/parents a yr that remind me of how credable my opinions are to them.I have various awards from other ATV safety institutions and ATV clubs to verify MY credability to our sport,I have the Michigan Department of Natural Resources asking ME for MY opinions.So Sir,YOUR opinion of me,means N.O.T.H.I.N.G!....

And oh yah,REAL enthusiasts dont give a damn about how many posts someone [who owned Honda] has in the Honda forum vs the other forums..Opinions are just that,OPINIONS,and if you see it as being BIASED,than its YOUR problem,YOU deal with it!

 

I just read all of the posts and here's what my take is:

Brand bias forces some people to be unobjective.......no surprise here.

Some will not address the actual question without linking it to Honda reliability. In thinking about this from a business standpoint, I can see why Hondas ATV progress evolves so slowly........if your sales are meeting expectations then why spend $$$ to improve your products??? When I think about it, that's the conclusion I come to.

Honda has rightfully so EARNED a reputation for rock solid quality and reliability. But I must say that the point some have made here that product improvement and developement must be painfully slow because the reliabilty of the product will then suffer otherwise does not ring true to me. That's like trying to say that when the stone wheel was first fashioned it could not be improved upon for fear that it would break more often. I believe instead that Honda management has simply decided to be "business conservative" and maximize profits by limiting new development spending knowing the sales figures are always there. Essentially what I see is that Honda is "resting on their laurels". They get the sales simply because of the name recognition and the reputation of reliability/quality. That's a real nice position to be in........however........PROGRESS marches on and resting on ones laurels is not a prudent long term business strategy.

I am one of those people that really wanted to buy a Honda because I knew they made great quality products. But in my price range the Honda Rancher AT just simply didn't compare to the competition. After looking at all of the manufactures........I ended up buying a Polaris based on price/value/performance/features AND the fact that I had previously owned another 1987 Polaris for about 4 years with zero problems......including the original belt.

I must admit that I approached the evaluation process with some ingrained bias: A) Hondas reliability reputation would have won the day for me if their machine was even close in terms of performance/design/features........it was is no way even close. B) My previous positive experience with Polaris combined with the fact that it had everything I wanted at my price made the decision an easy one on my part. The closest competitors ended up being the Bombardier Outlander 400 and the Yamaha Kodiak 450. The Rancher AT simply was not in the same class in terms of performance and design.

Anyway........that's just my take........and I'd love to see Honda stop resting on it's laurels and start getting on with PROGRESS.

I'm confident their quality/reliability will continue.

 

(...)

 

One can appreciate BACKINTHESADDLEAGAIN post..It is to the point and indicates a clear cut anology of your decision making process that helped you to make your ATV purchase.

I also gotta tell you,I LOVED the comparison of the stone wheel and product improvement.Good point you made there.

 

Really? Because I thought it was an ignorant attempt at making light of my point by drawing it to the extreme. A wheel made of stone is likely stronger than one made of wood, so reasoning would follow that users would be hesitant to use wood until it was known that the same level of reliability was availible from it. Yes your wooden whell is lighter and easier to fashion, but if you have to replace them more often at what point to the costs outweigh the benefits?

Its pretty simple if you think about it. Have you heard the saying; Its better/cheaper to do it right the first time than take shortcuts and do it twice? Same philosophy here, with better, longer testing and more thought put into the design process you end up with a final product that's better than one that was fast tracked and ushered through the door early. So when companies like Suzuki, Polaris, and Kawasaki rush to release thier big bore utes you find the high frequency and wide distribution of problems like those I listed earlier. I assure you the costs of the recalls and the hit to customer satisfaction and its impact on sales has been significant in these instances. We know what happens when products arent sufficiently worked through, we end up with Pintos exploding on the streets and the cruise control in Ford pickups setting vehicles, houses, and some people ablaze.

 

QUOTE-Its pretty simple if you think about it. Have you heard the saying; Its better/cheaper to do it right the first time than take shortcuts and do it twice? Same philosophy here, with better, longer testing and more thought put into the design process you end up with a final product that's better than one that was fast tracked and ushered through the door early END OF QUOTE-

Speaking of DOING IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME?

Why did it take Honda so long to introduce something as SIMPLE as rear brake lights and Disk brakes to their line up of ATVs?Heck,the Rincon was the first model ever produced by Honda in America with a rear brake light,and this took until 2003 to develope..The 2003 Rincon was also the first 4x4 Honda ATV developed with a disk brake,and even at that,Honda screwed this up by not putting disk brakes completely around this ATV.

I see that for 2006,many of their 4x4 ATVs come with brake lights and disk brakes as standard equipment..Am I to somehow be pursuaded into thinking that it took the last 20 yrs for Honda to research and develope a brake light and disk brake set-up that they felt was the best on the market for their customers,while the OTHER 4x4 manufactures have had them out for YEARS?

I agree,its better to do it RIGHT the first time,but BETTER dont take 20yrs of R/D while the OTHER guys got it right 20 yrs ago.

 

Originally posted by: MUDDY4LIFE
I certainly dont need YOU to tell me about MY credability..

or your spelling

you mean newbies that don't know any better?

you are a bitter ignorant one Muddy, one with such ignorance and bias should not be a teacher (if you really are one)

On the other hand, I don't know how I'm gonna drag that log out of the woods without a brake light. And something must be wrong with my brakes because they look and perform like new. I better change to discs soon!

the only reason I can think of that your in here is Honda-envy or you were fired from your Honda job and you vowed revenge for the rest of your life. poor boy. I feel sorry for you.