Which one is more reliable on a long term basis?

BTW, why is Honda the only one to offer hydromechanical transmission where as all other manufacturers use V-Belt?

I tend to think hydromechanical is a step forward... Am I wrong?

 

Hydro wins hands down......That is what sold me on the Honda Rubicon vs the Suzuki Vinson. Ask any mechanic and they will tell you.....gear vs. belt gear wins. Belt driven machines can freewheel down a hill because the belt provides little to no resistance. The on the honda you actually have to give it gas going down hill.

 

While it is true that belt drives are now better than they were in the old days, over the years I have just seen to many folks who have had problems with belts out on the trail, to ever trust them. Another issue with the belt is that it has a limited range of ratios that are available, so you are going to have to add a sub transmission (low case) to get those really low gear ratios. That adds another system to the mix, more complexity and extra weight.

As for the hydromechanical, for me personally it is a needlessly complex solution to a problem that doesn't even exist. I am a gear-on-gear manual transmission guy, and I couldn't see the point in paying $1,000+ extra for any automatic transmission that I neither need nor want.

When I am out in the mountains 50 miles from my truck, I want the system that is most likely to get me home without incident, and that is a time tested manual transmission. And with a manual, you can just put a real low 1st gear on it, so you don't need that extra weight of a low case sub transmission.

But, no doubt Honda's market research indicated that the general public prefers an automatic, so they had to jump in there with something or lose market share.

 

thats not really true at all......... its well known the hondas have no engine braking or at least not much. And the guys with belt driven trannies have alot better than honda..... And sorry its not a true gear driven its just like a car transmission runs off of fluid... And there not all that great, talk to a honda dealership and see what he says...... Now im not a real fan of auto trannies period but im gonna get a grizzly here shortly.....

I looked at hondas and i didn't really like how fat and stretched out they look, i guess i'm a fan of the more compact like the old foreman 450s which is another reason why i am going with a grizz...

The rubi is a been tranny than the rincons because of the low gear so if your going with a honda at least go with the rubi if not the foreman 500 and get the standard shift...

This is to ford8n47 not reconranger....

 

One problem with some belt drive systems is that there is no clutch on the drive pulley. So, when you are sitting there at idle the pully is still turning the whole time and wearing a hole in your belt.........about the dumbest design one can imagine (the name Arctic Cat, among others comes to mind)! There are still lots of posts here in the forum from folks who toasted a belt on a brand new low mileage machine, because of this ridiculous design flaw!

More intelligent designs have a clutch on the drive pulley, so it doesn't engage until you rev beyond idle.

 

The variable swash plate tranny in the rubicon has a couple major drawbacks. Its pumping oil around to power the system which is very inneficient,makes lots of heat and is not tolerant of dirty oil. It also has a computer system to operate it . Not to mention it will cost a fortune to repair the parts.

The rincon is just like a car automatic but should have had more gears and a lockup clutch.

My favorite is the foremanES . Very durable with a backup manual shifter in case of electronics failure.

The one item honda should have done is made the foremanES a fully computer controlled device instead of the push button setup. Then you would have the best of all worlds. A reliable effiecient manual tranny with full auto capabilty. They have been using this setup on big rigs for years.

As far as belt driven trannies I wouldnt buy one unless it had a very easy to change in the field belt with a spare already on board and no tools should be needed to do it either. Just like a sled.

 

The belt drive tranny is much, much more cheaper to manufacture, and the big plus...is almost anyone can maintain and fix their own belt drive tranny. Not so with either type of honda tranny. They both span about the same range of ratios. The rubicon and rancher at trannys are fluid drive, and the rincon has an automotive type torque converter tranny and clutch packs and plantary gears. The belt drives are realtivly easy and cheap to fix when it breaks, the honda tranny will damn near break the bank, to repair, if youre out of warrentee.

Theres no need to worry about belt breakage , and bringing along a spare belt. The only trannys without the centrifical clutch on the primary are the polaris and kawasaki trannys. A/C, (which most are suzuki made), are just fine. All the yamaha, and all the suzuki made suzukis are very dependable as well( twin peaks is kawi). Also , the engine breaking is very strong, and very reliable on the a/c, suzi and yami. I get as much engine braking on my kodiak as my geared forman. The engine braking does not flow thru the centrifical clutch...it goes thru a sprague clutch on almost all machines (belt drive, hydrostatic, geared..whatever), and theres no slippage , it feels as solid as a geared machine. Just be aware, that not all belt drive trannys are the same, or act the same.The polaris cvt is very different from the yamaha...ya they both have sheaves and a rubber belt...but thats about all thats the same.

I never though id be owning a belt drive auto, but now i dont even give them a second thought. It doesnt take much to remove the cover, and look things over. Its not rocket science. But ive never heard of a yamaha ultramatic (or suzuki made tranny) breaking a belt, . Its only the polaris and kawasaki types, and its comes from abuse and not properly using them, or adjusting them. Basicly, if youre gunning the motor...and the tires arent spinning...you need to back off and try something different. On the kawa/polaris types, the belt is a wear item, and acts as the clutch. The a/c suzi and yami types, the belt only tranferrs power, and should never slip..unless they get soaked or get grease on the sheaves. Belt life on a yamaha tranny is about 10 years , depending on abuse and usage.

Its funny how some people are worried about being stranded, by belt breakage, on an atv....but never give a second thought about the cam belt in their car. They are both rubber bands, and its almost unheard of, for a cam belt to break , if changed on schedual. And a belt failure on most cars, will result in huge repairs bills, and a belt breakage on a quad...means your buddy has to tow you back to the truck.

The life of either tranny depends on alot of factors. I could trash a rubi tranny in a weekend if i wanted to. I could also trash a belt drive tranny on a weekend. If you do the maintance, keep internal things clean, and watch out for abuse...they both will last a very long time.

 

Hondabuster - love the sig.

I thinkyour mostly right on except for timing belts never breaking. Ive had to repair at least a dozen cars that chowed timing belts. Just hope you have a noninterference engine when they strip the cogs off.

I dont ride with utes much but we have had a new Kawi snap a drive belt on a fast trail ride. Less than 500 miles and never towed anything to abuse it. It locked up all wheels at speed and nearly crashed. It took a while to untangle the belt and of course no spare so it had to be towed back.
There are many factor that determine belt life but getting rid of the belt is your best shot at never having the problem. Thats why honda went way way way out of thier way to eliminate the basic belt downfalls. Who knows if their solution was the correct one. One things for sure they wont have belt problems.

 

Um, what about the Rubicon? It is generally regarded as having the best engine braking of any automatic, including belt drives.

I own a Honda auto tranny and I work at a Honda dealership, what do you wish me to say?

 

There are no planetary gearsets in a Rincon tranny...