Man oh man all that I see on here are ES shifting and electrical problems on these hondas. WHATS GOING ON HONDA!!!. It seems like the dealers just blame it on a weak batt, or angle sensor. Give me a break I mean yes a weak battery does cause a bit of a problem, but obviously maybe these bikes need a larger or stronger batt now that we are equipt with all this electrical. They still use the same size batt that they always have.
Its just very bothersome that many of our dealers, just keep on giving us the run around with these electrical problems. Is there an answer????? Is there a fix for these quads???? What happened to bulletproof reliability hondas are known for?? Yes the engines are amazing everyone knows that even the competition, but what can we do about these electrical problems?? Is there anyone out there with the answer to. " I have a ES shift problem"

 

Hey, I'm a first time poster here. Speaking of ES shifting problems, here is my first question for the forums. Last weekend I bought a 1998 Honda Fourtrax TRX450ES. Even though it's 8 years old, it runs fine and looks like it's been taken care of. So far the only problem I've had is yesterday I was backing into the garage and when I tried to shift it up into neutral, it wouldn't go. I could hear it trying, but it wouldn't get into gear. I thought I'd shut it off and then try to get it to shift, but still no luck. After a while of tinkering I noticed the small spindle on the bottom left side where a foot shifter would normally be, so I took a crescent wrench and as I hit the up shifter button, I pulled on the wrench and it popped into neutral.

Does anyone have an idea of what may have caused this? Or is this a commom accurance on the ES series? I plan on changing the oil this weekend and hopefully that will help it out. It has only happened that one time. I have a few other questions since this is my first ATV, but I'll worry about this one first.

Also, is it possible to easily convert the electric shift to a normal manual foot shift?

 

Here in the forum, I constantly advise folks to keep it simple and just avoid the ES (and save yourself $200). But, I always get shouted down by the same few "usual suspects" that say it's the greatest thing since sex. It's buyer beware on this one. If you buy one of these turkeys, and have problems down the road, you have nobody to blame but yourself.

Why Honda is willing to put its name on something this unreliable, is a mystery to me...........

 

well, from a technician point of view, to answer the question "is there an answer?" would be pointless. The ES electrical system is very complex and has several sensors and a module, switches, LCD and every bit of wire in between, so there are many possibilities of problems, ranging from wiring to bad sensors or faulty modules. So it is impossible to finger any one particular component for a broad range of problems.

The problems that happen are intermittent most of the time, sorta "only happens with grandma on the back of the seat going through the stream every other thursday" kind of issues, and the customer expects us to figure it out right away and have it fixed for good. Here's news for ya-if we cant duplicate the problem, then we cant really pinpoint it because we won'k know when it's fixed!!!

We get paid a half hour of time to look at something for a problem, if we cant find it within that time, it just hurts our paycheck and wastes the boss's time. This is our JOB to work on these, not our purpose in life. We have lives at home and a family to take care of. Nobody asks you to spend 3 hours working on something you'll get paid a half hour for.

It's an ATV, not a necessity for life (at least for most people [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]) You spend money on it, and you spend money to maintain and repair it. If you dont want stuff to wear out on it, dont ride it. Simple as that.

I'm as sick as the next guy about people griping about the ES shift problems. But if you dont want to spend money to maintain and repair an ATV, dont buy one. All ATV's have parts that go bad, some more than others. If ATV's were perfect, there would be no such thing as a warranty.

Oh by the way, i'm an AUTO technician. You think Honda ESP's are bad? Try working on a CAN bus network in your average Ford or Chrysler.

 

Yes, we all know that Honda has an ES intermittent problem. Trouble shooting it is next to impossible. If you hear it trying to shift, Just learn how to do the Honda shuffle. Just hold the handle bars and wiggle your butt back and forth while pressing the button. It should go into gear. And yes you can convert it to manual shift. Just get a foot lever and hook it up.You may have to do a couple of fitment mods but it will work.

 

in response to quicksilver. There have been headlights on quads since the dawn of time. They have switches and wires and everything inbetween and they work 99.9 percent of the time. There must be a way that honda can improve on this. there is no doubt in my mind that honda has the technology to reduce the amount of ES shift problems. My point is, how can this be overlooked on a HONDA. Me, you and everyone else that buys a HONDA buys them so that we dont have to deal with these problems.

 

A headlight and an ES system are hardly comparable, logic dictates that. There are many more components in an ES system compared to a simple headlight system, so let's be reasonable.

Honda's ES system is not perfect, no doubt about it. However, it is about as reliable as any company can possibly make it, including Honda.

I don't understand some people. How can anyone possibly expect the ES system to be as bulletproof as a manual shift? Aside from a few minor differences, the internal transmissions on both models are identical. In addition to the internal transmission, the ES model has an extra wiring harness, various sensors, a shift motor, shift buttons, a computer, as well as a few extra seals and bearings. How in the world can you expect the ES system to be as reliable as a manual shift when it has so many more components? It can't. Expecting anything more is simply unrealistic.

Here's another way to look at it. Let's say a manual shift model has 10 parts that can possibly fail. Let's assume that only one of those parts fails on a semi-regular basis. That gives the machine a 10% failure rate on parts, pretty good right?.

Now, let's examine an ES model with 30 parts that can possibly fail. Let's assume that 3 of those parts fail on a semi-regular basis. This means that the ES model breaks down three times more often than the manual shift model. On the surface, this seems unacceptable, and shows a possible reduction in quality control and build quality. However, upon closer inspection, the ES model has the exact same 10% failure rate on parts, pretty good.

How can the ES model be expected to improve on the 10% failure rate on parts, when it has three times more parts that can fail? Bottom line, it can't.

Folks, the ES models have the exact same features as their manual shift counterparts, save for the thumb shifting. The transmission ratios are exactly the same on both models, the only difference is the way those same gears are shifted.

If people are so leary of the ES system, why not opt for the manual shift version? Surely, shifting with your foot isn't too much of a tradeoff for trouble free, reliable shifting, is it?

People, the reason Honda builds ES bikes is because there is a huge demand for them, and sales are very good. The reason they break down from to time is because there are so many more parts compared to the manual shift versions. And the reason you see so many posts about ES problems is because there are so many ES Honda's on the trails. Also, people don't generally make posts with the heading "5000 trouble free miles on my ES Honda".

Just my opinion and experience, folks.

 

Well, I'm happy with my ES model(s). I would not have paid the 200 more for ES, however, that also included the digital dash on the Rancher which made it worth it for me.

I've had to rock the quad fore and aft to get a shift before when on an incline, up or down. I accept that figuring the shift motor isn't as strong as my foot, doesn't bother me. It does seem this is less frequent as the machine is borken in since I cannot remember the last time I had to rock the machine to get a shift.

 

Are we overlooking the possibility of rider needing to learn the technique. Just like learning how to kick start a big bore 4 stroke, it takes some time. The moto rags regularly complain about the Honda ES glitches but long time riders seem to get along much better. I have even seen where Railroad Companies that put over 50,000 miles on a 4 wheeler are using ES on newer Honda Ranchers and they would not be doing this if not reliable.
I also do not see the attraction of ES. You buy a Rancher or Foreman for reliability/simplicity and not for convienent features. Otherwise you would be shopping down the street, right?

 

I purchased my 450ES last weekend at a farm auction. I've been in need of a 4X4, and my parents have only ever owned Honda, so I knew what I wanted. When I saw this one sitting there and the bidding was still low, I decided to go for it. Luckily no one else outbid me and I was really excited to bring it home later that day. It runs great and looks like it has been taken care of. I'm not complaining that it is an ES, but since I don't know much about it I was just trying to learn as much as I can about it, in case something happens. I didn't come with the manual, or with a "limp home lever" so for now a crescent wrench will do. I'd appreciate any advise riders with experience on this style of machine can give me.