if what you are saying is true, top speed will be lower. However, you have made no sense the entire time and you cannot explain your point of view

explain to me how the engine RPM and transmission RPM ratio is changed by altering engagement.

 

It ends up being the same as if you changed gearing in a diff. Say you hade 4.10's at 60mph your motor was turning 2000rpms, then you changed your diff to 4.56 now at 60mph your turning 2500rpms.

The reason people put in this type of clutch kit is to do the same thing you just don't notice that the motor is turning more because of the larger tires. Like the stock 25 would be the 4.56 and 27 would be the 4.10 before the cltuch mod. Now when you install the kit if you put 27 on it's back to the 4.56. Kinda like put in a stall torque convert expicte once it's engage it's locked so that's why its 500rpms higher through out the entrie rpm range.

 

how have you changed the ratio from the engine to transmission again? you didn't explain that part. The outer part of the centrifugal clutch is geared at a fixed ratio to the pump swash plate, right? where's the ratio change that you are talking about? I only see an engagement change, not a ratio change. You are not going to spin the outer clutch at a lower or higher speed than the drive plate (and weight set) when it is engaged, with or without the kit.

For this example, let's say that the fixed ratio of the outer clutch to pump swash plate is 1:1 Stock:
The engine spins at 1699 rpm
The outer clutch does not move
The engine spins at 1700 rpm
Clutch weight set expands
Outer clutch spins 1700 rpm
Pump side fixed swash plate spins at 1700 rpm (given the example 1:1 ratio)

If you have the kit:
The engine spins at 2199 rpm
The outer clutch does not move
The engine spins at 2200 rpm
Clutch weight set expands
Outer clutch spins 2200 rpm
Pump side fixed swash plate spins 2200 rpm

It is obvious to me, and should be to you, that the swash plate spinning at 2200 is going to produce more speed than 1700, but everything equals out when the stock clutch is spinning at 2200 rpm like the kitted one

your analogy for a stall converter is incorrect. the clutch on the rubicon is not a fluid coupling in constant slip with or without the kit (like a non-lock-up stall converter). Rubicon with or without the kit locks up. if you have a lock-up stall converter, the ratio returns to 'normal' at lock-up.

 

You are the only one one here that is giving me a hard time on this I never said anything about clutch diamiter or anything to that effect. I was just trying a different way of expaining how it stays 500rpms more through the entire rpms range.

Like I said before I have a 02 rubicon and installed one of these I took my tach along and it stays 500rpms higher through the entire rpm range.

What do you do for a living, I work on these all day and everyday!

 

You may work on them everyday, but Propnut is correct on what he says. Once the clutch engages the speeds are matched. There is not a 500 rpm difference after that.

 

Cluby, I'm not trying to give you a hard time, but trying to understand the Hondamatic. There is a lot of superficial information about this unit. The schematics available are cartoons and leave me with more questions, like exactly how the pump and motor lock together for a solid 1:1 coupling (that does not suffer from the inefficiencies of a typical hydraulic transmission). If I am wrong in my understanding, I just want a factual explanation so I understand. I can take being wrong, but I just won't accept someone telling me I'm wrong by misrepresenting facts or telling me it is so and don't question it. By the way, my stupid user name should give you a hint of what I do, I work with large hydromatic props.

 

The motor and HFT don't excatly lock together, the clutch on the motor engages a drum that turn the HFT. The high pressure oil pump feeds 60psi at idle and over 150psi at 5000rpms. So with no oil pressure you go no where with one of these. Now that's why everyone with a 01 to a 03 hade problems the oil pump when bad and took out the crank, piston and HFT unit.

I myself have done aleast 12 motors just with these types of problems, I know these things from front to back. There isn't a problem on a rubicon that I have yet to fix.
I am sorry if we cann't agree on the clutch kit deal, forget move on right.

 

exactly. either the clutch to drum, or drum to HMT ratio would have to be changed to change the overall ratio that you are trying to suggest and the kit cannot do this, right? how do you get the drum to turn at a different ratio to the engine? what does this? 4 springs? where is the differential in ratio?

However, I was not asking about the pump and "engine" as you are implying, but the HMT's pump and motor.

when the [swashplate] angle is minimum (vertical to the axis), there is no reciprocation of motor-side pistons, which causes a direct coupling with a theoretical reduction ratio of 1:1.

direct coupling, or locked as I said, this is what I cannot envision yet. I'm not making this stuff up, http://world.honda.com/motorcycle-te...amatic/p6.html

 

That part has to do with the internal parts of the HFT transmission, the input and output shafts of the transmisson turn freely with no oil pressure. The angle of the swashplate changes with gives you a varible transmission. Honda has preset the different agles (aka like different gear ratios). So lets say that your in 5th gear that would be like your 1:1 raito. Meaning you turning the input 1 turn and the output side turns 1 turn.

It has nothing to do with the motor and what rpms it running. The clutch just engages and disengages. Putting in the different spring raise engagment but once it has engaged there is nothing to lower the rpms back down. The only thing that can lower the rpms is if the motor boggs down. But this is what the kit is sapose to help by raising the rpms so the motor won't.

 

I know it achieves a 1:1, how does the pump side and motor side lock together? I understand bleeding pressure off by pushing the motor side pistons at an angled swash plate to get the lower ratios, but what happens that directly couples the pump and motor (besides the position of the motor side swash plate, I get this)? When the motor side pistons don't bleed any pressure off, what mechanism locks the two sides together?