i think willie is saying to use 10w30 from what little i read.

 

i think willie is saying to use 10w30 from what little i read.

 

First off the first number is the poor abilty at 0 degrees, so 10 Winter 30 viscosity

So if you are running a 10W30 when it's up to running temp it and 0W30 are running at the same thinkness.

Now remeber that ATV's idle at 1000rpms to 1500rpms, that's where ATV oils have the additives hold up to these harsher enviroments. Cars go down the highway at 1500rpms to 2000rpms, and turn only up to as much a 5000rpms to 6000rpms. ATV's can turn up to as much as 9000rpms.

So if you want to use car oils or what ever go ahead, your doing the maitiness and obvesisly smarter than the engineers that devopled these motors.

 

Kudos to ya on that one cluby

Every day I am told from folks of how many ATVs they have ran on Havoline or Castrol oil for 15+ years and never had a problem. That's out of maybe 4 machines these people have owned.

On the same token, I cant help but share the fact that I see many ATVs come in with problems specifically due to running automobile oils. And for also,...15+ years and seen many problems. That's out of seeing many each month with the same problems.

So, while everyone on here and elsewhere will always disagree on the truth of motorcycle oils....or the hidden truths that these chemist nuts on here claim,.....no one will ever tell me that what I SEE is not a reality and that all oils are the same.

I better stop before I write an entire page about something noone will ever read.

 

Oh, and by the way, Gimpster,,
I checked around my stuff today and didnt find anything regarding the issue of the HP4M we are discussing here. I can clearly recall seeing the info, but cant clearly recall if it was a bulletin, and issue of the wrench, or somewhere else. I briefly checked around on iN for a bit and found nothing either.

 

Clubby assertion that all 30 weight oils have the "same thickness", is simplistic and in fact incorrect!

The API viscosity scale (30, 40, 50 weight, etc.) is arbitrary and outdated in the age of multi-viscosity oils. It is historically well establised (left over from the days of "straight weight" oils), so it is what we go with because it is what folks are use to...but it needs to be replaced.

For example, a 30 weight oil has a kinematic viscosity (cSt @ 100 degrees C) between 9.3 and 12.5. Anything in this range will be called "30 weight" on the bottle, but clearly an oil that is 9.3 is "thinner" than an oil that is 12.5, yet they would all be called "30".

If you look at an manufacturer's specs, I think you will generally find that the 0W30's tend to fall at the lower end of the range, and the 10W30's will fall at the middle to upper end. A savy customer will ignore the "weight" of the oil completely, and just look at the kinematic viscosities....

...but, most folks don't want to be bothered with details of stuff like oil chemistry, viscosity, or anything else, and happily remain ignorant...like a cigarette smoker who knows they are killing themselves but just don't care!

 

I guess I wasn't clear on what I hade said about that. A 10Winter (not weight) 30 and a 0Winter 30, at operating tempature the film thinkness is the same.
That is why the Honda 420 manual says that you can run the 0w30 year round and also that 0w30 is a semi systhic oil. Honda came out with that oil for the Rincon for cold weather.

I have also seen many premature failers when people have used CAR oils in there ATVs.

Can anyone on here find and tell me what are the 3 main things that a oil is sapose to do in a engine?

 

My point is that at operating temperature the "film thickness" of any two different 30 weight oils is not the same...you are just plain wrong! An oil that is 9.3 is thinner at operating temperature than an oil that is 12.5 at operating temperature...plain and simple...and they will both be called a "30" weight oil.

(I used the term "film thickness" because you did, but this is not to be confused with the term "film strength", which has more to do with an oils chemistry than its bulk viscosity. For instance, an ester synthetic will typically have a film strenght equivalent of the next grade higher petroleum oil. This is the beauty of an ester...you can run a thinner oil and get less fluid drag, yet still get the protection typical of a thicker oil. A wise oil buyer will take note of details like this!)

My fear is that Honda is messing around with us here, and we are going to see the same BS that we got when the car oils all got spec'd with thinner oils so the manufacturers could meet arbitrary government CAFE standards. At the onset, car manufacturers found that the thinner oils could not gap the looser bearing tolerances of the time, and they were all forced to tighten their tolerances up. I am not aware that the motorcycle insustry has tightened up anything to accomodate thinner oils......

 

Motorcycles not have tight enough tolerances? When I rebuild Honda's the spec for piston to cylinder wall clearance is less than .001".

We can go on and on about oils on here, but unless you designed and tested these motors how can you come on here and tell everyone else that your brand or type to use.

 

Knowsalot -

It may have been in a parts bulletin. Haven't had a chance to dig around there.
Too busy with my Mini Sprint this past few days to research in depth. If I come up with anything, it will be posted here.

----- Gimpster -----