evhwg, I agree with you totally. You'll notice that jdm thinks that the environmentalist movement slaps a "right wing" label on anyone who doesn't agree with them. Then he goes on to slap a "commie" label on anyone who wants to protect any land in its natural state. Well, jdm, government control does not always mean communism. It can also mean facism, and if government does not listen to the part of the population that wants to protect land, but instead allow big business to develop, exploit or destroy it, then we will all be losers. Grow up for God's sake! I would have thought that crying "commie!" everytime you don't agree with someone would be getting a little old. If you want to disagree with someone, fine. Come up with an argument and try and convince others that you're right. Don't just call them names and hope that others will join in.
And anyone who thinks that all environmentalists are hypocrits and don't believe in what they are saying have obviously never met any environmentalists.
My original comment in this thread is that it must be scary to live with all the right wing fanatics. I think jdm's comments are a good illustration of why.

 

The problem as I see it is this. Canada has nothing close to our Bill of Rights, so it just goes that if you don't have the God guarenteed Right to begin with, you don't mind having the Government take them from you. In other words you can't miss what you never really had in the first place. You in Canada may have implied rights, but if they aren't written down somewhere in your laws then they are absolutly worthless. The reason A lot of us down here are upset is that we are being denied our rights through regulatory fiat. If Congress had put it to a vote of the representatives of the people and it passed, we still wouldn't like it but at least it would have been done out in the open with debate from both sides.

To add to this Land grabbing. There is a place in Ohio, where the Government wants to take some land away from some farmers for a wildlife refuge. The upshot of it is, the land was deeded to the ancestors of the people still living there by none other than George Washington. The land was given in perpetuity for payment to soldiers who fought in the Revolution. The Enviros and the Animal rights extremists don't care how long you've lived on the land or what you use it for. The GOVERNMENT know best. BS..

 

i just dont want to see trees chopped down to make riding spots.
there plenty of places to ride if they would open some. we have a place where there are old railroad tracks. they removed all the track and theres fireroads everywhere. i dont see the harm riding on these at all. back in 1989 they use to let you register your ATV and ride there which was cool.
but i read an article in the newspaper recently the reason they stopped it is "hunters,hikers,mountain bikers have rights. they never mentioned ATV'ist having rights thou.

they played us up like hells angles or something.
now they do random patrols with planes and ground patrol just to give us a ticket. near the end of the article they did mention there is no where in connecticut for atv'ist to ride legally. i admit i still take my chances on the tracks its the only place i have to ride and i love the spot. does this make me a bad person i hope not...desperate yes.

 

I am not talking about legitmate enviro concerns which are being addressed legally I am talking about the regulatory fiat described a few replies early. In the U.S. we have speficic rights granted and the enviromentatlist extremists want those rights trampled for the furtherance of there cause which is government control of everything. You can call me extremist if you want but most of these crises are false or blown completely out of proportion to draw a government response. THE TRUTH HURTS. If they take your land away from you you have worked hard to pay for and say it can't be used by you because of the endangered red spider or some such nonsense then see if your opinion changes.

 

First of all I think you should do a little more research. In Canada we do have a Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
I don't have a problem with people standing up for their rights. In fact I think you should. I just have a real problem when people label their opponents "communist" because you disagree with them, and act like they are freaks who are completly wrong. What I'm suggesting is that by trying to understand their point of view you may arrive at a position that is not ideal for either side, but is acceptable to both. Obviously to do this they need to be open minded as well.

 

Sorry about missing your Charter of Rights and Freedoms. I didn't realize that you now have one. I guess it's been along time since I studied about Canada. I see that you achieved those rights in 1983. Not that long ago, and I have been out of school for a good many years longer. Our "Bill of Rights" as stated in our Declaration of Independance and our Constitution Are endowed by our "Creator" not the government. Therefore, rights bestowed upon you by your Creator cannot be taken away by man or government legally without consent of the governed.

 

That is such an easy argument to shot down. What it your nieghbor says that God gave him the right to walk in the woods and not be bothered by Quads and Ski-doos?
Rights aren't given to us by our "Creator", they're negociated and agreed upon by men.

 

hang on there evhwg and thenewfiebullet you both seem very middle of the road and express concern about logging, I have a AA degree with forestery as a minor. above one spoke about slective cutting of trees being better but in much the western part of canada and the US where dougless fir grows clear cutting is the best approch. the fir family of trees needs full sunlight to grow when young, this if one only cuts a few trees in a forest there is no light to re-grow seedlings and only non-native Hemlock can grow in shade thus turning a healthy fir forest into a non-native hemlock forest withen 150 years. Clear cutting looks like 100% crap to the normal person right afterwards, but with every seedling getting full sunlight its the quickest way to retern a forest to the most healthy orginal native state. Wildlife also thrive in the thick dence brush a few years after a clearcut had taken place as they have more hideing areas and food. I have some picts I took back in 1988 of a forest before and after it was logged and again 10 years later in 1999, its amazing how fast it can recover here in the west. My own land is on its 4th generation of trees, 1st was logged in 1886 2nd in 1932 3rd in 1999 and my 4th seedlings are already 5 feet high. Trees are a crop when treated right.

 

more and more "PUBLIC" land taken away from the 'PUBLIC'... i wonder what percantage of that will be land here in Montana, one day Montana's forest will probably become all federal land because of the eco freeks. hopefully bush will remove all the bull clinton has issued and allow us to go into there again

 

I agree, the eco's are anti everyone but themselves and want the forest as there personal musium...