Before the introduction of the 400EX, Rancher series and the Rubicon, everyone was doubting Honda's capabilities. There were questions flying around about how the Largest motorcycle company of all time could just stand around and watch as the "competition" released new idea after new idea. I am glad to see that Honda has been doing their homework the last few years to come out with some of the best ideas yet. Like a four-stroke quad that can compete in the two-stroke race world. And automatic tranny atv with no belts to speak of. This is great for the sport and forces all other manufactures to take a step up. Or be left behind.
For Honda, I have two thumbs up. It may have been a long time since we have been dazzled by big red. But the wait was worth it. I can't wait to see what the future holds next.

Chris "00" 300EX

 

Better late than never, for the 400ex. I guess they were waiting for all the 250R owners to finaly wear them out before they decided to market a new high-perf quad. Too bad for Yamaha. Even if they do come out with something faster & better handling than the 400ex, everybody will have already bought a 400ex and won't have anymore money.

As far as the nte 4x4's, they look promising, but it's too early to tell if they will really be somthing worth talking about or if it's just a the same old model dressed up.

 

Oh dont worry, I have money for a new high performance quad. Also, The Banshee is already faster than a 400ex, so maybe they just need something that can handle as well.

RoostKing

 

I agree the auto tranny sounds interesting. I can't get excited about any 4X4 that is stuck in 4 wheel drive all the time. I'm not overly enthused with drum brakes either.
Scott.

 

I believe ATV design is largely market-driven. I believe this fact of life prevails even though a considerable sector of the ATV community likes to see the most technologically-advanced products and the most versatile capability in new machines (I find myself in that camp).

For example, I bet Honda market analysts estimated as precisely as possible how many potential buyers will run screaming from the showroom floor when they learn Honda utility ATV's are available only in full-time 4WD, and with drum brakes.

Then, I bet Honda production engineers and cost-accountants calculated precisely how much capitalization and product cost would be involved in providing disc brakes and "switchable" 2WD/4WD drivertrains.

And finally, Honda management decided whether the market share lost to those preferring disc brakes and 2WD/4WD is worth the expense and loss of price competitivenes or profit the alternate designs involve.

Finally, the decision was made: full-time 4WD, drum brakes. Were they "right" or "wrong?" Depends upon your point of view. From the point of view of the only ones with power to make this decision, Honda, the decision is right if they capture their target market share realizing profit margin goals. If, on the other hand, customers avoid the new Hondas in droves because of dissatisfaction with drum brakes and full-time 4WD, the decision was wrong.

After all, the company is named "Honda," not "Mother Theresa's ATV Factory." The "bottom line," ultimately is, well, the bottom line.

Tree Farmer

 

Exactly, Tree Farmer...

Also, when has Honda ever made a machine that wasn't well engineered? I believe that with the Rancher series, they have improved upon every aspect and quality that those rider's hold dear. I know that I'm really looking hard at one. I have owned a TRX300FW and thought it an extremely versatile, and excuse me, "fun" machine. Drum brakes and full-time four wheel drive are certainly not going to make me decide to go buy a Yamaha instead. These are quads, people, not cars. With this type of machine the only person that would really appreciate the disk brakes is Mike Penland.

One thing that did surprise me about Honda is, even with the release of the Rancher series, they still make the original Foreman. They must be selling quite a few machines in order to keep a machine that crosses over so blatently with their other models (i.e. 350 Ranchers and 450 Foremans).

Anyways, I'm glad to see Honda preserve their top spot in total technological and design domination. That is how it should be from the company that started it all... man that sounded like an ad...lol.

 

Tree, if I may call you that, I couldn't agree with you more. I have thought to myself, if they had the same exact maching w/ drum brakes and w/ disk brakes, and the one with disk brakes costs, lets say, $200 more (which may be a little conservative) which one would I buy, I would go with the drum brakes every time on a utility machine (at least with Honda, I have heard that some other manufactuerers have had trouble with the sealing)

They want to give you the best quad for a reasonable price. Honda seems to spend more on research and development, therefore they have higher quality (just my opinion) and they wont introduce a new item until it is fool proof. Lets face it, a lot of the reason Hondas sell so well is because they have an untarnished reputation (SP.) not because they have the latest technology.

Once again, in my opinion, if Honda built a bike with all the bells and whistles, Independent rear suspension, Disk Brakes, Automatic Transmission (which they just have), pushbutton four wheel drive, locking differential, and so on, the price would be so high that only the elete could afford it, my guess would be about $10,000. Even at that price, they would still have to sell enough to make it profitable, and that just isn't going to happen.

Alaska, I doubt that you will see the Foreman 400 too many more years, although it probably does not cost them too much to produce a model that they do not change. My guess is that there will not be any improvements to the 400, and as soon as it is no longer profitable, you guessed it....gone.

I just cant wait to ride the Rubicon!!!

 

Tree Farmer, I too must compliment you on your excellent analysis of Honda's situation and how they handled it.

AlaskaTRX, You wrote: "Also, when has Honda ever made a machine that wasn't well engineered?"

I can think of several. I personally own the worst engineered ATV that Honda ever built. When Honda built the '85 Odyssey they must have had thier heads in the sand, and here's why.

#1) They placed an air-cooled 2-stroke behind the seat of the vehicle.

#2) It is difficult to shift the transmission from neutral to F or R without grinding the gears. There was a factory recall on this, but Honda wasn’t very aggressive with it and most vehicles didn’t get the transmission replaced.

#3) The Counter balancer fluid dipstick reads wrong; when it is on the "Full" mark it is actually way over filled. When it is on the "Low" mark then it is actually "Full". This can and has led to the main seals leaking due to the excess pressure created by unknowingly over filling it. There was a service bulletin on this from Honda also.

#4) The early production FL350Rs were built with a 342cc engine. This engine vibrated terribly. Honda did a recall on the entire engine. They replaced it with a 329cc engine, which was nearly identical with the exception of the cylinder bore. These are considerably smoother engines.

#5) Very constrictive air-box / snorkel set-up. These machines run 100% better with the lid off the air-box.

When I purchased my 350 it had a blown engine, one of the 342cc versions. (Apparently the previous owner had not been informed of the recall.) I tried to get any one of my three local Honda dealers to rebuild the motor for me, all three declined, no, it was more like they refused to work on it. As a mater of fact the only place that would take me in was a KTM / Arctic Cat dealer.

They completely rebuilt the motor from top to bottom. When I got it back it ran OK, but vibrated badly. Not knowing about the recall and after talking to several people here in this forum and other forums, I decided that there had to be something wrong in the way the engine was built. Back to the shop it went, where it was completely disassembled and everything was checked, OK’d and sent back to me still with a bad vibration. Frustrated I was about to get out the 12 ga. and put the POJ out of it’s misery. Then I found a Honda dealer some distance away that really knew his stuff about these things, and informed me of all the above recalls and problems that the FL350R’s had. If it hadn’t been for him I don’t know what I would have done.

I used to think similar to you about Honda, after owning several other Honda Atv’s, I felt that Honda had the best-engineered vehicles on the earth. My opinion has been changed slightly. Sorry about the long "whiney" post.

Eric Zeh




[This message has been edited by Eric Zeh (edited 09-24-1999).]

 

Thanks for the tips Eric,I did not know about the recall.Now if i could get this stinking printer to work,I'd show my bud.Guess I'll have to reley on my memory.Uhhhhhhhhhhhh.