So, can the inference be drawn that an 8 x 8 is better than a max 6 x 6? (As long as old wounds are reopened ) This is like the modern day "chicken and the egg" routine (no offense Chickenman, aka the FormerCornCob2). Who is on 1st, Abbott?

 

From previous discussion, I understand you believe:

Honda (and other manufacturers) falsely and fraudulently label their ATV's "4X4," or "Four-wheel drive," when in fact, they are only "4X3," or "Three-wheel drive."

False advertising is against the law; can we expect criminal prosecution from contact with local and federal law enforcement authorities?

Also, deluded owners of these falsely-represented machines might file civil suit for actual and punitive damages resulting from this deceptive practice (false drivetrain labeling).

Detroit's excesses are even worse (by a factor of two); Motor City and its foreign competition claim their open-differentialed pickups and SUV's, including Jeeps, are "4X4" and "Four-wheel Drive" also, although you point out, these vehicle are only 4X2, Two-wheel Drive, not even THREE-wheel Drive.

Because of its one differential, a Honda Foreman must rightfully be called, "4X3." How, in good conscience, can a Ford Explorer, with TWO differentials, be called a "4X4?" Instead, "4x2" is the Explorer's correct designation.

Ordinary sedans are 4X1, One-wheel Drive; and a very big fallacious drivetrain representation offender is the US Government: for decades, the US Armed Forces have sent our fighting men and women into combat in open-differential vehicles claimed to be 4X4 (e.g., "Vehicle, General Purpose, M141," the "Jeep"), when they are only 4X2. Even the well-known, tandem-axled "6X6" or "Six-by" truck, is only 6X3!

Thus, by your definition, drivetrain exaggeration and prevarication knows no bounds, seemingly; wreaking heartbreak and havoc wherever it appears.

New subject: Andrew, I know you're sensitive about your vehicles; I intend no offense. You mentioned even your own beloved International Harvester mis-labeled your own 4X2 pickup "All-wheel Drive," or something. Since you often mention the IH superiority to all Ford, Dodge, and Chevrolet pickups, could you be more specific? That is, what areas (e.g., acceleration, speed, payload weight/volume, etc.) do you find superior in the IH? How did you verify this superiority (e.g., race, pull-off, mud bog, etc.)? How did the IH manufacturers and engineers achieve this superiority?

Finally, where may I see and test-drive a 2000 model IH pickup? (O.K., O.K., maybe I AM pulling you leg just a little on that last one!)

Tree Farmer

 

whewwwwwwwwww... I am SOOO glad I posted a "Clarification to this 3WD 4WD thing" Now that's it's Clear As Mud. Shall we move on..lol

Oh By the way, The replies are very interesting and prove there are lots of interesting, intellegent people in the world of ATVs.

 

TF, read my post again. I think Honda should be allowed to call their quad a 4WD. I mean if all the tires get traction it really works that way. Technically it's 3WD, but it's accepted as 4WD. And at times depending on the traction it is 4WD.
As far as the Ih thing. Obviously it's NOT speed!
But think about this. Think of the "king of the hill" engine each of the big 3 make & use in trucks. (don't include deisels, they buy them from real truck guys i.e> IH) The 454, 460 & 440 right? Got news for you. They are all CAR engines!!! Now take my IH for example... 345 V-8. This engine has bigger pushrods, lifters, bearings etc etc. Than any of the big 3 comparable motors. Ever see the timing gear on their light duty truck engines? It's the same kind you find on a tractor. Ever see a 152ci 4 cyl & 196 ci 4 cyl motor from IH. They are the left side of 304 & 392 V-8s cut in 1/2. The worlds only 4 cyl big blocks? That means a 152ci 4 cyl has the same crank etc as a 304V-8, meaning it's internally "bigger" than a big block Chevy !This is the same engine in dump trucks, school buses etc. It is even found in trucks with 19,000GVW's! Weight, not just towing! With it's high Nickle content IH motors go 250,000+ miles between rebuilds. Their low end torque & flat power curve are matched only by deisels. Yet with the right mods they are able to turn 7,000rpm. Even though mine redlines at 4,000 Their superiority is already well known. Anyone who knows anything about trucks knows IH is, was & always will be the toughest mass produced truck built. Sure todays trucks have larger model axles and more rated payload. But IH's had little tiny bias ply tires. They figure in the equation. Put the same tires on a new Dodge & watch it's payload numbers drop. Something else. The Scout... 100 in wheelbase with a 345V-8! Who else makes a vehiecle the size of a Jeep that has a medium duty dump truck motor in it? Plus the tranny to go with it. Certainly not the big 3. Ford's Bronco was the ultimate rip off. & a poor one at that.
It's too bad IH didn't last long enough for the big SUV boom. The Scout started it. (The Jeep wasn't an SUV until after the Scouts success, then it was advertised more in that way)
Reasons why IH didn't make it are plenty. A few are of course the big strike, Gas prices, emissions. (it's easy to make a car engine like a 350 burn cleaner than a 345V-8 dump truck engine), plus people started buying trucks less for work & more for a 2nd car. Well wives really didn't want to run down to the tractor dealership to look at trucks when they could stay in town and visit the local Ford dealer. Even a Ford can carry groceries. Trucks are suppossed to be tough. IH's were the toughest. They overbuilt everything in the driveline. My dad had a 3/4 ton Chevy 4x4. It also had 8 lug rims. The rim holes matched up but the hole in the rim wasn't big enough to fit over the IH's hub, now that's over doing it! Make everything big & strong.
My truck even has a PTO shaft like tractor
Plus IH's list of options was big. Who else would sell you a 1/2 ton truck with 1 ton axles if you wanted it like that? Plus you could get 3 point hitches for them. I could go on & on but you know what I'm saying. Go to the local Napa, look up engine parts. Chevy, Ford & Dodge trucks are with the cars. IH's are lumped with the dump trucks and tractors. If that doesn't tell you who the best truck is I don't know how else to convince you. Unless you are real gas milage freak. Being mine only gets 8 mpg you got me there.
c-ya,
IH, The original little big rig! (not dodge)

 

Doc;no "whats" on first "who" is on second,and "I don't know" is on ATV CONNECTION.What a YOKE!!!!
CM

 

My pproblem with the Honda system is that it is called limited slip. My truck has a limited slip diff and if one wheel is on ice and the other wheel has traction the truck will pull itself off. That is what limited slip is to me. If you jack up a foreman and put power to the wheels you can actually stop one of the fronts with your hand. I wouldn't want to try that with my truck, but I hazard a guess you couldn't hold it.

Glenn.

 

Well done in explaining the IH trucks Andrew Thomas! Theres nothing built today that can compare to them. I've always enjoyed the less commom brands of trucks and I would like to get an IH someday. Right now I have a '71 Jeep J4000 pickup that is one tough truck! I like Fords too but even my jeep runs better than my old Bronco. I would be very interested in seeing some pictures of you IH.

And my opinion on the 3wd I'm not sure if anyone said this already I didnt feel like reading all the posts throughly. But an open differential likes to have both wheels planted firmly on the ground. If one is up in the air it will spin because it is the easier of the two to turn. The diff. will always turn the wheel that it can transfer the power to easier.

Greg

'96 Trailblazer
'71 J4000
'78 Bronco

 

Hi.
I'll try & scan some pics to send you soon.I don't have many good ones of the IH though
What size is a J4000? 3/4 ton? A guy near me has a late 70's early 80's J20 4x4 Jeep truck. It is awesome. It's dark green, Centerline rims & those Thornbird tires. It's a beautiful & rare truck. Did you know IH used AMC 258ci 6 cylinders in some Scouts? And near the end of their run in 1975, some IH Travelall's had AMC 401V-8's in them.
c-ya,

 

Andrew,
Thanks! I will be looking forward to seeing the pics. My J4000 is a 1/2 ton but a very heavily built one! The front hubs are very large and it has 16" 5 lug wheels on it same bolt pattern as Ford but larger hub openings. Jeep made a J2000, J3000, and J4000 those numbers only refer to the wheel base of the truck not axle rating. My 4000 is a 132" wheelbase it is the longest one. All 3 could come as 1/2, 3/4, or 1 tons just different lengths. I have seen the J10s and 20s they are the newer models and numbered by axle rating. Yes I have heard the IH used the AMC 258 and 401. My Jeep has the 232 and it runs very strong for a small 6 cylinder. I'll be happy to answer any other questions about my truck I love talking about it!

C-ya!

Greg Carberry

'96 Trailblazer
'71 J4000
'78 Bronco

 

Even though this is an ATV board...
Did you say your truck was an auto or manual? Any pics?
My brother has a '79 Bronco. It has that junk 351M engine I took some pics of him busting through snowdrifts. I used my Nikin N60 35mm SLR camara with 800 speed Fuji film. The pics look great I'll send a couple.
Ever see a Studebaker 4x4 truck? They are awesome. I have a bunch of pics from the IH Nationals held in Springfeild OH each year. My friend one Grand Champion with his '74 200 IH truck. That was grand champion of the last 10 years!!! They had all previous 9 winners compete & he won on the 10th anniversary