I'm sure glad to see this thread back.

Okay... here's the whole story on my 450. Get ready for what may be the longest post ever!

In early 1998, I chose the new Suzuki 500 over the Honda 450, because I just loved everything I read about that Suzuki engine. Seven months later, I still loved the engine, but the truly lousy handling, lower overall quality, and certain sub-system designs left me so frustrated, I almost dumped it into the nearby river! Instead, I calmed down and took a big loss by trading it for a new 1999 Honda 450ES. Although I later came to wish I'd bought an S instead of the ES, I've been almost as happy with the 450 as I've been with my 1997 Honda 300 4x4.

I wish I'd bought the S instead of the ES, partly because I've come to hate floorboards. Yes, I guess they do offer greater protection, but I've had no problems when riding my 300 without floorboards, and I hate the way floorboards collect mud and debris. I also prefer the S model because I don't like the shifting restrictions of the ES, and I don't like not being able to hold the clutch disengaged. With the S model (like a 300), you can partially press down the shift lever to disengage the clutch, without actually shifting gears. This is nice to have when you want to "pop" the clutch to get a little extra boost when you need it, like when trying to lift the front end up onto a step or tall log. Also, when you're about to drop off a short but extremely steep hill, bank, or rock, and you want no braking force whatsoever which might cause the quad to flip over forward, you have to shift into neutral (or maybe 5th gear) on the ES. With the S you can press and hold the shift lever down to disengage the clutch. In casual trail riding, the ES is usually just fine, but I still miss being able to carry something in my left hand. With the S (or the 300), you can put your left foot to use doing something besides just taking up space. Frankly, I really don't undersdtand the whole point of the electric shift, unless it was done just to allow floorboards. Why make such an effort to allow one's left foot to do nothing? Was it so busy before? If it were simple and/or cheap to do, I'd convert mine to a standard shifter. But it requires a number of expensive parts, so I guess I'll just learn to live with the ES.

My front rack has a storage box, and I hate that third headlight that turns with the bars, and shines on the box, robbing me of my night vision. The very first thing I did was to add a toggle switch to the side of the headlight shell that allows me to turn that light off... and it's never been turned on since! I also applied a short length of black electrical tape over the green neutral light. It's so bright you can still see it through the thin tape, but without the tape, it too ruins my night vision.

Next I dug out the wiring diagram and modified the wiring (not an easy task!) to allow starting in any gear, and still have the neutral light work normally. Personally, I just don't like having to shift down to neutral from 2nd gear every time I stop, in order to start the engine again, and then have to shift back up to 2nd gear when taking off. Being able to start in any gear saves four shifts every time I stop. I have done this modification to every quad I've owned. It was super easy with the Kawasakis, and fairly easy with the Suzuki. Both Hondas, however, were downright complicated, and it seems that Honda changes their wiring almost every year, so every model may be different. Take the Honda 300 4x4 for example... I think the 1995 & 1996 models had the same wiring diagram, but they were different in 1997, 1998, and again in 1999.

Then I pulled off the stock tires. What an experience that was! Someone at the assembly plant had used adhesive on the inside bead of both front tires! Three tire stores tried, and none were able to break them loose. I had to cut those brand new tires off their rims! I've seen no other quad, even two more 450's, have this problem! On the stock rims I installed 27x9x12" Blackwater XT tires (yes, I chose the 9" tire for all four wheels) for their soft ride, aggressive tread, and extra height (for more ground clearance). Naturally, they are not really 27" tall, but the stock tires weren't really 25" tall either, so I still got about one inch more ground clearance. As expected, the tirs work well in nearly all situations, but probably not as well as a speciality tire in special situations. XT's are certainly not a "great" mud tire, but they are better than the stock tire. However, I will soon be trashing these tires and going to something else. I like their performance, but I have had way, WAY too many flats with them. Few of the flats came from punctures. Most came from pinched and split sidewalls (I'm a rock hopper, and ride in a lot... no, I mean a LOT of rocks!) There was plenty of room for the taller tires, and no "lift kit" was needed (I hate those things anyway!) But, there was a problem. With identical tires mounted on rims of different widths (7.5" rears, 6.5" fronts) the overall tire height came out different. The narrow wheels gave a taller height. Since the 450 has identical front and rear final drive ratios, it is very important to me that all four tires be exactly the same height, so I soon replaced the stock wheels with four 12x7 ITP modular wheels (yes, I had destroyed those stock front tires for nothing!). Now all four tires are exactly the same height.

I've done some tire size experimenting, and I've come to believe that wide tires on a 4x4 may help in the mud, but they create handling problems. I had the big 12" wide (almost 13" actually) XT's on the rear wheels of an earlier quad, and I noticed that when hill climbing, and the front end got light, those wide rear tires got so much traction, the front end was often reluctant to turn! I began to wonder if the same thing was happening on level ground, but to a less noticeable extent, so I did some experiments to find out. Assuming my trials were properly done, and that I correctly interpreted my findings, I came to the conclusion that wider tires only helped when you had enough power to spin a narrower size. Otherwise, we're carrying (and turning) a heavier tire with greater ground friction losses... for nothing! Luckily, the 12x7 ITP modular wheels on my two Hondas are identical, so I was able to swap wheels and tires back and forth in just minutes. I came to find that I liked the feel and handling of lighter and narrower tires. I never had one regret for using the four 9" wide tires on my 450, except that it does look a bit odd in the back. I've not been stuck in mud where others made it through, and I've not been left spinning my wheels on a hill that others were able to climb. On the other hand, it corners better (and thusly quicker), and it turns better (and tighter) in rocks. So, I've come to prefer 9-10" wide tires.

Then I added a Superwinch 2000, selected because of its $180 price rather than a $299 Warn winch. I chose the Superwinch mount because I like the way it fits better than the Warn mount. I don't think I'll ever buy another winch for an ATV, though. It just hasn't been used enough to warrant its investment and weight penalty. I don't see where a winch will do anything that a good come-along won't do, and the come-along is lighter, cheaper, more reliable, and more flexible in use. The come-along will even do things a 12 volt winch won't! The winch may be quicker and easier in some cases, but it still hasn't the overall capabilities of a good come-along.

I installed a 12 volt horn off a car for a while, but it too went unused for so long, I finally took it off.

I was determined to have a seamless, one-piece, combination skid plate (the bottom piece) and bash plate (the front piece). I did not want two separate pieces with a joint that would hang up on rocks and logs! I really wanted a Maier plastic skid plate like that on my Honda 300, but none were available for the 450. I considered trying to adapt a skid plate for the Honda 300 to fit the 450, but that left too many unprotected gaps, so I would not recommend it. I didn't really like any of the two-piece setups I saw, with one bash plate and one skid plate, and I certainly didn't like the prices I saw, so I made my own. The first one was made from 1/8" soft aluminum, but that didn't work. When I hit a rock hard enough, it would dent the plate, catch in the dent, and then fold the whole plate backward, ripping off the hose clamps I used to hold it in place (hose clamps mean no bolt or screw heads poking downward). I replaced that skidplate with one made from hardened 3/16" aluminum, and this one is working great! If doing it again, however, I'd just buy the Highlifter two-piece setup, as it's the best I've seen (but I've not seen them all). I do like my one-piece skidplate better than any other I've seen, but the 3/16" hardened aluminum, pre-cut to the size and shape I specified, cost me $60, and it took me nearly a day to locate and cut the two oil drain holes, locate and cut the slots for the hose clamps, and bend the nose section (hardened aluminum, remember) using my hydraulic engine hoist, to match the curve of the forward frame area. It was simply too much work for the $100 or so I saved. No way I'd do that again!

Highlifter High Performance Kit
This kit includes carb jets, air filter, muffler, and some questionable accessories. The results were unexpected, but I'd still recommend the kit to anyone who just has to have a little more. The results are much like what you'd expect if you lowered the overall final drive ratio... except that you do get a slight increase in top speed. The acceleration improves somewhat, and the top speed increased by about 2 mph, but still, it generally feels more like you have a lower gear ratio. The torque increase almost demands that you now use 3rd gear where you used to use 2nd, 4th gear where you used to use 3rd, and so forth. It has more torque. It seems a little smoother. Each gear has a little bit wider speed range. Throttle response is quicker and snappier, which I like, but not everyone will. The stock 450 has a soft, slightly slow throttle response, which is great for being smooth, and minimizing driveline jerking, which is transferred to the rider. With the High Performance Kit installed, throttle response is more immediate. To me it means more precise control, and a quicker, harder hit of power when attacking rocks, logs, and other obstacles. The drawback is that any bump on the trail that causes your throttle thumb to move on the throttle, results in a jerking motion of the whole quad. It is a bit more tiring than stock, and a bit less comfortable. When you mash the throttle, it doesn't just accelerate smoothly like a stocker, it jumps forward right now!
The new muffler is just barely louder than stock. I've measured both with a Radio Shack Sound Meter, and the muffler supplied with the kit is about 1 dB(A) louder than stock, using 8 of the 12 supplied disks. (A 1 dB(A) gain means approx. 26% louder. A 3 dB(A) gain means you have doubled the noise level.) Not one single person has suggested that it is too loud. Plus, you may actually prefer the deeper, throatier sound. I sure do. I think because you wind up using a higher gear than when stock, the gas mileage stays about the same, or maybe even a tiny bit better! This was surprising.

Then came the comparison to a stock 450ES, Gene's 1998 model, with 25" tires and no winch, while mine had the taller 27" tires and a winch on the front (plus I weigh about 30 lbs. more than Gene), accelerated better than mine. We adopted a test procedure in which we drag race side by side from a standstill, using 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gears, quitting at the point where we'd normally shift into 4th. Before adding the High Performance Kit, Gene's 450 would almost always beat mine by about 1-1/2 quad lengths. Any differences from run to run resulted, I believe, from one rider or another choosing different shift points. Once mine had the High Performance Kit, however, the results were almost exactly reversed, except I was beating him by about one quad length, where he had been beating me by 1-1/2 lengths. The net improvement had been about 2-1/2 quad lengths.
The basic kit an be installed in an hour or two, but if you really want spot-on carburetion, be prepared to spend a day or two experimenting to get the carb tuning just right. It's frustrating and often painstaking, but you'll learn a lot from it if you don't already know carburetion, and the results will be worthwhile.
What I don't like about the kit is the way it is marketed and sold "as a complete kit". It includes a K&N air filter, K&N air filter oil, K&N air filter cleaner, and an OuterWear cover for the K&N filter. Since installing the kit, I have several times compared the results of using the K&N filter versus using the stock air filter, and I see no difference at all. I therefor feel that the kit pushes onto the buyer a product he does not need. But that's not all! The kit includes a complete DynoJet carburtor jet package, consisting of a carb needle and about six main jets. This kit alone sells for over $50, but the only thing you use from the kit is the needle! None of the DynoJet jets were large enough, so Highlifter includes another jet or two, which you actually use. So again, the kit seems to push onto the buyer a bunch of jets he does not need or even use! As far as I know, however, the needle is not available separately, so you have to buy the whole Dynojet kit to get the needle. Everything else in the kit is available separately.
I'm not sure the kit is worth the money, but I like it.

The Highlifter Big Bore Kit
At first it was supposed to boost the engine from 433cc to 498cc (great!). Then it was said to be 482cc (good!). Then it was 477 or 475cc (well, okay.). Now you may notice that they don't even advertise the size increase! What you actually get is 467cc, a gain of only 34cc, which is barely a 10% boost. In addition to the cost of the kit (oversize piston, rings, head gasket, and a new sleeve, but with no instructions or clearance recommendations, and they sell the oversize base gasket separately), you have to pull your cylinder, and take it to a machine shop. They have to press the stock sleeve out. Then the cylinder has to be bored twice, once for the new sleeve body, and once for the upper flange. Then the new sleeve has to be pressed in, and the new top surface machined flush. Then the new sleeve has to be bored for the new piston. And then the engine has to be reassembled.
I did all this back in late June, so there may have been improvements to the kit since then. Personally, I think it inexcusable that mine came with no instructions or recommended clearances, and that the oversize base gasket was not included. The machine work cost me $120 locally, and took about a week.
The performance difference might be described as "slight but noticeable", or perhaps as "noticeable but insignificant". I could feel the difference, but I didn't see where it was at all meaningful! And maybe I only "felt" a difference because I so badly wanted to. It didn't seem to accelerate or climb a bit better than before.
And then it gets worse! Right from the beginning there was noticeably more piston rattle (piston slap within the cylinder). This is not all that unusual as the sleeve gets thinner and thinner. Indeed, the piston slap is more noticeable with a stock Foreman 450 than it is in a stock Foreman 400. The thinner sleeve naturally has more "ring" to it, and it absorbs less noise than a thicker cylinder wall. So, no big deal, right? So what if it makes a bit more noise? Well, had it remained at that level, I woulnd't mind so much. But it gets worse and worse as the piston breaks in and settles. Either the cheap Wiseco piston is too soft, or the clearances we used were too large. Again, why isn't the customer provided with the recommended clearances from the piston manufacturer? When I called Highlifter to get the recommended clearances, no one there knew! In fact, the first two people I talked to didn't even know ANY details about the Big Bore kit! So, since I was using an old and well established machine shop, which has done all my drag racing engine work for years, and which had successfully done my Honda 300 Big Bore kit (a Powroll kit, however), I just asked the machinist to use the clearances he thought best for the application.
The bottom line is, I see no worthwhile power gain, and I have an ever worsening case of piston rattle. I am seriously considering buying a new cylinder, and going back to the stock piston. I might put up with the rattle if there was a worthwhile increase in power, but since there isn't, I only bought an irritating noise!
I am, for the most part, impressed with the people and products associated with Highlifter Products. The Big Bore kit, however, is an exception. I DO NOT recommend it!

One thing that bugged me from the start about the 450 is the lack of space between the rear storage rack and the fender underneath. There's not enough room to get some tie-down ends under the rack tubes. Where the rear corners of the fenders bolt to the rack, I replaced the short bolts with longer ones, adding 1/2" spacers on top, to lower the fender a bit. This helped a little, but not much.

I've also replaced my stock shocks with Works Performance shocks (Approx $620 with shipping). I would not recommend this expense to the casual trail rider, but for the hard core enthusiast, it may be worthwhile. There is a noticeable improvement in riding comfort, but I don't think it's worth $600. There is also a marked improvement in handling and control when ridden fast over rough ground. I don't know if this was worth $600 either. But when you consider both improvements at the same time, to the same machine, then it's a bit more reasonable. But again, for the casual trail rider... I dunno.
And there's more. The longer shocks give more wheel travel, and they raise the chassis a bit, giving more chassis ground clearance, but not more rear axle clearance.
About the only down-side to the longer Works shocks is that the higher chassis naturally reduces some of the 450's natural stability. This is most noticeable when descending extremely steep hills, when the rear end lifts up high, and the front end squats really low, making the hill seem even steeper than it is. If you've ever ridden a quad with long wheel travel and high ground clearance, down such a steep hill, then you already know how disconcerting it can feel. The Works shocks don't make it feel as unstable as a big ol' wobbly Sportsman 500, but the change is in that direction!

I have had very good results from having ATV seats recovered with additional padding. I've done this with the Honda 300 and the Suzuki 500, and the results were well worthwhile in both cases. I have not seen the need to do this with my 450, but if I install stiff and harsh riding tires, I probably will modify this seat as well. Gene simply added a doubled-over sheepskin car seat cover to his seat, making it ride more softly on long, rock infested rides.

There is a 1 gal. 6 oz. red plastic gas can out there that will fit (sideways) into the stock Honda 450 storage box. It's a squat little red container with yellow fittings.

The Honda 450 uses the same air filter and oil filter as the Honda 300 4x4, and the wheels will interchange as well. The Honda 300 comes with 23" front and 24" rear wheels, but the bolt patterns are the same for all three 4x4's (300, 400, & 450).

From all I've read and heard, it seems that most of the battery drain problems were in the 1998 models, and most of the electric shifter problems are in the 2000 models. Has anyone here seen either problem appear in a 1999 model?

TIRES: I have Bi-Claws all around on my 300, and I had the normal set of front Bi-Claws and rear Tri-Claws on my Prairie 400. Like nearly all serious mud tires, they ride harshly compared to stock and other soft tires. Still, I may go with four 26" Bi-Claws on my 450, simply because I have had such good luck with them. They have worked well for me in all areas but slick wet pavement (not a common riding surface for me), and they have proven extremely resistant to flats. I've had only two punctures in over 3000 cumulative miles, and no side-wall splits from pinching the tire on rocks. I've not yet decided yet between the 9" width (actually 9.7", like I have on the front of my 300) and the 11" width (actually 10.5", like those on the rear of my 300). Although advertised as 2" different, there's really less than 1" difference. They are lighter than many of the similar mud tires, and their tall, widely spaced lugs put so little rubber on hard ground, they steer easily and handle beautifully... especaily if you like to powerslide around corners!

Finally, the only "failures" I've had on my 450, are the front bolt fittings that hold the gas tank cover in place. Because of all the engine and carburetor work I've done, I've had that cover on and off so many times, the little plastic fingers that hold the nuts for the four bolts simply wore out! Otherwise, my 450 has been just as reliable as my 300.

Well, I warned you that this was going to be really long!

[This message has been edited by GLBanks (edited 11-20-1999).]

 

just getting this back on the front page so we can keep the great info going!

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FOREMANes

99'FOREMANes The REAL KING of the Jungle

 

Great Post Gordon! Very informative.

Glenn.

 

Has anybody tryed putting a motified S shifter on an ES?I ask this because I also like the clutch option.But we can get no good intel wheather this would damage the ES transmition.If used for extended pierods

 

Thanks for all the information, Gordon. I'll be picking up my new 450 s (yellow) this weekend and your comments on the Bi-Claws have really helped in making my decision on tires. Maybe you (or anyone) can recomend stock vs. aftermarket steel vs. aftermarket aluminum wheels. I have heard from a few friends that I should stay away from aluminum for rough, rocky trail riding. Is the weight reduction noticable enough to justify them?

P.S. My last quad was a 1986 Polaris 250. Beat the living crap out of it and it always came back for more. Good machine.
I'm guessing my 450 will be quite a step up.

Thanks,
Dan

 

Dan
I got (about a month ago) a set of 26" Maxxis MUDBUGS for my 450 I really like them, for myself I opted to get ITP chrome and black steel wheels at the same time so that during the summer I can run my stock wheels without ruining my "mudders" I can say that the "bugs" handle very well in the mud and the hard pack. Around 50% of my riding is in the mudbogs. I must say GREAT CHOICE on BIKE and COLOR!!
Brad

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FOREMANes 99'FOREMANes The REAL KING of the Jungle

 

I guess it's about time, I told my half of it. I bought my green 450S in the middle of hay season as a quick replacement for my 350. As I remember it, my 350 seized up on a wednesday and I picked up my new 450 on the following friday, without even shopping around. I have since been very very pleased with everything on it. I have 25x9.5x12 and 25x13.5x9 vampires on ITP steels that are "over" inflated, a cobra exhaust pipe, a homemade skid plate(similar to Gordon's), a redesigned rear hitch, a homemade front bumper/pushbar, and I have welded expanded metal down to the racks, so I can carry small cans without them falling through. This is a good bike, no question about it. However, if Honda would come out with about a 600 cubed version of it, I would jump on it! Just so I can brag about having the biggest and best utility ever made! Great bike.

350XX, 250R, 200XX, 450S, 300 2wd

 

I've got a 99 model with 4- 26x12x12 super swamper xt's, offset wheels and a lift kit. Highlifter's performance kit, Highlifter's skid plates,a home made brush guard, Rule winch, custom rear basket( above and behind the rear rack), and just purchased the 3 point hitch for my summer work. I like all of the accessories I've added but the rear basket and the brush guard I built, have saved me a lot of money. I had a mishap a few weeks ago and just didn't lean into the hillside soon enough till it was too late. I jumped off and scurried to get out of the bikes way as it rolled. I saw dollar signs as it rolled. It stopped 15' from a 100' deep coal mine pit. A couple of other riders helped me roll the 450 over only to find a broken speedometer glass and the upper plastic shield. The rack and basket may have cost me $100 to build myself but they probably saved me about $1500 or more in parts. I also would like the ability of shifting manually as well as the thumb shift. In general, the 450 has helped me a lot in my work and has enough power to do what I need. The tires are a little agressive for trails but never skipped a beat in snow and water crossings. I plan on building a custom cab this winter for next years cold weather. The last cab I built for my old king quad was great but fully enclosed with aluminum. I think I will use canvas on the rear of the cab so I can open it up on warmer days or just mid day when it's too warm for the cab.

 

I have a green 1999 foreman es I've had for about 6 months it has 1500 miles on it. This is the best ATV I have owned. Previously owned 6 polaris atv's. I use my foreman to do alot of heavy duty farm work, There is not a day goes by I don't use it. Every thing from spraying, seeding, weed wipeing, checking fence, herding cattle and numerous other chores. I really like the super low 1st gear. I am wondering how the 26 and 27 inch tire's affect the gearing overall and if low gear is still low enough to pull big loads. Another thing I would like to do is have it so it will start in gear, can any one out there explain the process it take's to do that. I wish honda would just combined the 450s & 450es so you could shift both with your foot or thumb, because there are times I wish I could foot shift. Does any one agree with this. PS A 2wd & 4wd`option with diff lock would be nice to.

 

Farmking, I was paging through my Dennis Kirk catalog and I came upon this new start in-gear switch for Honda ATV's. There are no years listed or certain models listed, so it must fit all Honda ATV's. It sells for $47.95. Is this what you're looking for?