Phoenix1,

No matter what kind of belt drive machine Polaris could produce, you will ALWAYS have riders that would never buy a belt drive machine....period. Polaris tapped into the shift drive market for that purpose. Wise move wouldn't you agree? If you don't, why are other OEMs producing belt drive machines now.

 

Dave, I would absoultely agree with that, but why do you think those people do not want belt drives? I am positive that Honda does not make a belt drive because they could not make it bulletproof. I think its great that Polaris is making a Manual now. Hopefully they will offer it in more of their machines.

 

But when you are talking about some reliability probleme on the polaris, it rarely concern the auto-tranny doesn`t it ? And I agree that manual transmission are better in some task but in my opinion, I prefere the automatic in mud, hill climbing and just plain riding. The only place I would like to have the manual is in rock climbing ( there's no question there ).

 

PHOENIX1;that was my opinon,immaturity is shooting your mouth off about something you know nothing about. COB

 

corncob2 wrote... "Gordon: never seen anybody who knew so much, only didn't know what he was talking about."

I admire your ability to shave without using a mirror, corncob2. It's impressive, to say the least!

"Your (sic) refer to that silly independant (sic) suspention (sic), what is silly about keeping your tires on the ground as long as you can.(?) Isn't traction the name of the game.(?)"

Sometimes it is, and sometimes it isn't. Too much traction is one (but not the only one) of the reasons why a Sportsman corners like an overweight pig. When you corner hard and fast, you want the inside rear wheel to spin, in order for the rear end to make the turn. That's not hard to do with a quad with swingarm rear axle like the Magnum 500. The Sportsman, however, leans over so far you feel like it's going to roll over sideways, and instead of reducing the weight on the inside rear tire, the IRS keeps it planted, and tries to keep the bike going straight ahead. And with the Sportsman or the Magnum, if you do get the rear end spinning, you either have to cut off the AWD and allow the front end to push, or you have to put up with the steering of a locked front axle. This not only makes steering difficult, it means one front tire has to spin or slide in order to corner. Yes, I realize that very few Sportsman riders care about this, but some people like spirited riding.

IRS is clearly an advantage in wider off-road vehicles like trucks and jeeps, which often have a lower center of gravity as well. But in narrow vehicles with a relatively high center of gravity, IRS may (but maybe not) be good for comfort, but not much else as far as I'm concerned. Polaris, like some others, make some pretty high performance machines, but none (allow me to repeat the word NONE) have IRS. If it was truly a great advantage, doesn't it seem logical that more racing and/or high performance quads would be using it?

"That(')s the reason (P)olaris has that silly AWD that makes the wheels dig-in when you need them, not spin like that wonderful limited slip used by others."

I guess it seems that way to you now, corny, because you're trying to defend your brand instead of trying to understand the mechanics involved in riding. But when (or if) you ever get to where you want to corner fast and hard, you'll learn that you don't want a locked front end. Whenever you try to turn the quad, the outside front wheel has to travel a greater distance than the inside wheel. If the front end is locked, you either have to spin one tire, or drag one tire, but either way, you have to lose traction (and power) with one or the other. With a limited slip differential, you don't have this problem.

"You refer to AWD around fast corners, locking the front end. If you knew half what you pretend to, you would know that Awd is only engaged when the back wheels are loosing traction."

That's partially correct, cobby, and while it may seem unusual to you to have the rear end sliding while cornering, it isn't at all strange to experienced riders. You see, every 4x4 quad I know of has a live (i.e., no differential) rear end, so both rear wheels always turn the same RPM. When cornering, the distance around the inside of the turn is less than that around the outside of the turn, so one rear wheel has to spin or be dragged. So even with an AWD Polaris, you've lost traction with one rear wheel or the other, or else you aren't turning! And if you have the AWD engaged, and happen to spin BOTH rear tires, then WATCH OUT! Your front axle locks up, your differential action is lost, and now you have to slide or drag one of the front tires as well! Hey, if you like that, fine. Just leave me room to pass, okay? Thanks, buddy.

"Traveling down (a) gravel road going around corner(s) at high speed that others can achive, doesn't mean the wheels are locked(.) (M)aybe they ought to put a 2wd button on it DUUUH!!!"

Okay, now you've lost me. To the best of my knowledge, the Sportsman 500 DOES have a button that allows 2WD. And since I'm going to give you credit for knowing that... just what ARE you talking about?

"(I)sn't it funny (that) if you don't have it, and others do, and you settle for less, then it's not really important(?)"

I don't think it's funny at all. Different quads have different features for different people to make different choices. Sportsman 500 riders choose better comfort, but "settle for less" in the areas of reliability, more weight, more maintenance, and at a higher cost. Magnum 500 riders get almost equal comfort, but with better handling, better reliability, less maintenance, and a lower cost. Riders of other brands have plenty of choices too. But don't feel badly about that, because allof us had to "settle for less" in one area or another. There is no perfect quad for all people.

"Speed, ground clearance, silly suspention (sic) that gives a superior ride, more horses, I really feel bad now that I even considered all these things when I bought my POLARSIS (sic) 500sp."

Well quit feeling bad, and just be glad that you're learning more about reality. Maybe you'll make better choices in the future.

"Roll over sideways come on!!! Get real(.) (I)f you can't ride better than that(,) stay home where you belong."

Corny, I'm not sure what you're inferring here. Are you saying that riders shouldn't try new experiences... that they should stick to only what they already know for sure that they can do? Or are you saying that any rider who crashes should have stayed at home? Shoot, I've rolled over sideways more than once, but that's the price we pay for trying and learning new things. If you're one of those Sportsman 500 riders who stick to nothing but dirt roads and mud bogs, then I think you're missing a lot of what off-road riding is all about. But that's just my opinion. A lot of riders think I'm crazy to attempt some of the stuff I do, but I enjoy the challenge, even when I don't make it.

"Where is this place, that your (sic) going that I can't (.) (S)urely not through the woods(,) the scrub brush(,) and rocks that you can't clear because of low ground clearance."

Oh dear. You've not overcome the beginner's mentality that says you can't get over a 10" rock without 10" of ground clearance, aren't you? I'm saddened to see that. I could tell you several spots I can take my Honda 300 4x4 that I doubt you could follow on a Sportsman 500, but since you're not familiar with this area, and you don't have a thorough understanding of off-road capabilities, would it really mean anything to you? I doubt it.

Would anyone else here like to tell corny about some of the stuff I ride with a puny little Honda 300 4x4? With his level of understanding about off-road riding, I rather doubt that he'd believe me.

"Allready (sic) we have desided (sic) that it's not the mud hole you couldn't get through because of that wonderful LIMITED SLIP front end."

I totally agree that the Polaris AWD system is the 2nd best system available for serious mud, and thusly better (in mud) than the limited-slip front differentials with which I am familiar. But I still don't feel that the advantage in mud is worth the disadvantages, which include, but are not limited to: being dangerous on very steep downhills, awkward handling, often unreliable, higher maintenance, more weight, often failing to release properly, etc. And we can also note that by switching to serious mud tires, a lot of the Polaris' mud advantage is diminished.

"Surely it isn't on the good trails that you can't keep up with the mighty 500 & 600's."

Okay! Now we're beginning to have a better picture of what you consider "good trails". You probably like a lot of dirt roads and well manicured paths with some mud-holes along the way. And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that. I'm just saying that it isn't what I consider good 4x4 terrain. I like rock beds, boulders, logs... really rough stuff where traction is important, of course, but not quite as much as energy management and overall rider skills... places where riders more concerned with comfort usually seek alternate (and easier) paths.

"Gee I guess I missed something in there some where (sic)."

That's alright. The important thing is, if you pay attention and listen, you'll learn!

"But I'm sure with all your wisdom (how ever missguided (sic)), you will have an answer."

Well, now you're embarrasing me! I doubt that anyone has all the answers, and I surely know I don't. And I realize that we're often considered "misguided" by those who'd rather spend the day on a couch than seek an adventure, but here again, we all make different choices.

"Please inlitten (sic) me, to what is bad about belt drive(.)"

1. Some people complain about the problems encountered when they get wet and begin to slip. In my case, I made sure my belt-drive compartment was properly sealed, so I only had that problem when I practically submerged the whole quad and drowned the engine as well! It's a shame that so many Polaris quads come with improperly sealed belt-drive compartments, but at least it's curable. 2. Some people complain about the heat build-up, and how the belt-drive covers warp or melt. Since mine wasn't a Polaris, I never had that problem, but neither have I ever seen it happen with any of my friends on Polaris quads. I really don't think it's all that common, but it is a complaint with some owners. 3. Belt-breakage and replacement has been noted. Here again, mine wasn't a Polaris, but I've not seen ANY belt-drive quad break a belt. I have seen two Sportsman 500's burn up a belt while stuck in deep and sticky mud, but I tend to blame that more on the rider than the belt-drive system. 4. My personal peeve with the belt-drive system (and I had a Prairie 400, which has the LEAST of this problem!) is the lag time between applying throttle and having the power actually engage. The Sportsman 500's I've ridden were not as bad in this respect as the Grizzly, but ALL of them, to include even the Prairie, had more lag than I want. Here again, this is not much of a problem in the mud, but it definitely is in seriously rough terrain. In bad mud, and on unknown hill climbs, however, I tend to feel that the shiftless trannies are better.

"(S)illy me I figured that since they used to make POLARIS, only belt drive at time, with superior pulling powers. Go into thier (sic) own class at ATV pulls, of course with all of three years experience, that was before your time."

Sorry, but I can't even understand what you were trying to say in that paragraph.

"Wonder (why) with all it's faults(,) the other manufactors (sic) are trying to copy it, the missguided fools."

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but didn't Rokon use a belt-drive shiftless tranny long before Polaris did? And didn't Honda use a belt-drive shiftless tranny on a couple of off-road four-wheelers before Polaris? Again, maybe I'm wrong, but it almost sounded like you were saying that Polaris was the first. And anyway, when you say "copy it", don't you mean "improved on it"? The Kawasaki had a lot less lag time between throttle and power delivery, and less heat build-up. And then Yamaha added engine braking before Polaris did. Oh and of course now even Polaris has abandoned it as their "one and only system", so... Well, I guess a lot of people like it, and a lot of people don't. It sorta comes back around to the subject of "choices" again, doesn't it? My first 4x4 was a belt-drive, and I liked it... until my riding preferences changed.

"Ask KAGEY, a ATV MECHANIC which ATV he works on mostly. Of course he is only a mechanic, what would he know(?)"

Do you really think that's wise? I mean, do you really recommend that people ask advice from someone they don't know, and know nothing about? Cobby, I don't know Kagey. I don't know his qualifications as a mechanic, his education level, his training, his experience, his age, or anything. Maybe that's how you got started, but consider this... how about asking mechanics you know and know about? Doesn't that sound like a better idea? Cobby, when I bought my first 4x4, I considered buying a Sportsman 500. Our local dealer sells Honda, Kawasaki, Polaris, Suzuki, and Yamaha, so their mechanics are familiar with all of them. So of course I talked to the service manager (and parts manager). At the time, I didn't listen to his advice ("Get a Honda.") because I wanted my wife to ride, so I was determined to get an automatic. I've long been a fan of Kawasaki, but the 1997 Prairie had no brake light, no gauges of any kind, no 2WD option, etc., etc., etc. The big Sportsman 500 looked mighty inviting to me. I listened to Mike's advice to avoid Polaris, but I wasn't totally convinced until after reading a lot of ATV-related magazines, and talking to a lot of ATV riders that came into the dealership. And when a magazine comes right out and talks about one particular company's poor reputation for reliability, it makes you sit up and think! So, I finally bought the Prairie, and never regretted it (it later became 1997's "ATV Of The Year") until my riding preferences changed (and my wife decided that riding in the dirt wasn't for her).

"I've yet to be, or see any (P)olaris pulled from the woods."

And were you thinking I'd never heard that before? Kerry hadn't either, until I had to tow his Magnum 425 home... twice! (Okay, that may not count, since both times were due to chain failure.) But nonetheless, I've seen it over 10 times. But from your description of "good trails", I'd not be surprised to hear that no one in your group ever broke down.

"Hell(,) you couldn't get where I go if I did need some help."

Well, if all you ever ride is mud, then I can see how you'd like your Sportsman.

"Get real. That(')s the problem here(.) (S)ome YA-hoo thinks he knows all, that don't know JACK S#%@ trying to tell everyone all about it(.) At least know what your(sic) talking about first."

I'm sure I speak for some others here when I agree that this is some of the best advice you've offered, and I (presumably 'we') hope you'll take it to heart very, very soon. All it takes as a little research and study, Cob. It's really not all that hard.

Meanwhile, I wish you continued good luck and good riding. I don't envy you that which is said to "accompany" 'bliss', but I wish you continued good luck, all the same.

Gordon Banks

 

Gordon,
IRS on a Jeep !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Are you crazy ??????? A solid axle front is the reason I bought a Grand Cherokee & Some of the reason I love my old 3/4 ton 4X4 IH truck. Instead of those "cars" they make today that are called trucks. Except the Dodges and heavy duty Fords. Oh yeah, what is Fords best engine option in a truck? Hmmm an IH Diesel!!! I love that
But enough about IH being the greatest truck ever... If I were offroading I would take a straight axle anyday. Much stronger, better articulation, better ground clearance (trust me, the center of your truck/ quad won't hang down when one wheel is way up)plus easier & cheaper to lift.
Please don't mention the Hummer. I've seen them get cooked in off road competitions by Jeeps, Scouts, Blazers & even a Samurai.
The Blazer was an old one & and the Sammi has Dana's under it.
But IRS or not, the Sportsman is still the Cadillac of the ATV world.
And take it easy on "Cobby" it is after all hard to take advice from someone who suggests IRS on a Jeep. That was a good one, I'm still laughing...
c-ya,
ps> long considered the best mass produced 4X4 in the world>>> the 'solid axle' Land Rover

------------------
Andrew Thomas

'99 Scrambler 400 & '99 Trailblazer, both with RCR mods.

 

GORDON;i don't know where you get all this info.I,ve never had the feeling of falling off in a fast corner,why compare the utility machine to a racing machine,you truly lost me on that one.How many racing machines do you see,try to crawl rocks in the moutains.I'm sure they don't have use for IRS.If your racing down the road at high speed,you sure have no use for 4 wheel,thats why there is a 2wheel button.Why once you have rolled sideways would you go back for seconds?I have learned my machines limitations and try to stay with in them,nothing wrong with pushing them, but why past them more than once.You still haven't told me where it is that you ride that I can't.You don't know me,or my riding capabilitys,or what I ride in,why would you assume, you know so much about me when you don't.That was the point of my first post!!.The whole point was talk about what you know, not what you think you know.Yes Yamaha did come up with the EBS thats one of the best things they did for polaris,it forced polaris to put out thier own.I talked about the polaris as that is what I know,you had so much misinformation in there that i felt that I needed to reply.I refered you to someone who is knowledgeable,you say you wouldn't talk to someone you don't know.But then your on here, talking to all these people you don't know, telling all that you don't know.You once again assumed you knew where I ride,I don't know about you but have found it almost impossible to get to the trails without traveling some roads.I don't ride much mud, as I'm in the Moutains,majority of our rideing is rocks and rough terain,I guess the one thing we do agree on is the speed.We have had days that we only went like 25 to 30 miles all day,WE were 3 hours going 6 miles in MOAB last year and it was great.This is hard for flat landers to understand but anybody that rides the moutains knows what I'm saying.I'm sure if you check into it you will find that Kawa has changed thier cluch.It's more along the line of polaris.I respect your right to your opinion,but also need mine.I just felt that you were puting misinformation on here and wanted to set the record straight.I will apoligize for coming on so strong,but please have your facts straight first.This is a very informative forum but only if the truth is told, not hear say.I know my polaris very well,and only talk about other quads when I have had the actual experience.Lets move on,share the trails,share the riding and enjoy the scenery.LATER COB

 

Gordon,it is totally useless to argue with the Cob.He is TOTALLY loyal to his quad.Cob my friend,let me tell you the truth about the Sportsman.Its an excellant hunting quad,probably one of the best.When used for CASUAL trail riding,probably one of the best.When plowing snow,giving its excessive weight, and AWD system,it is the best.Comfort of ride,the best.In mud,probably second only to its much snappier 2 stroker 400cc Xplorer brother.Why will I not buy one again?I find its weight to be a problem on serious trails and hills,plus after the experience I've had with my Dealer and Polaris,I'll NEVER buy a piece of crap from Polaris again.I was concidering buying a Xplorer,but it seems to me that the Dealer is willing to wait my suit out as long as it takes[possible 2 yrs]before wanting to settle anything.Well I CANT WAIT TWO YRS TO SETTLE THIS.Polaris offered me help.I took the quad in last Wed,the freaking *******s still aint looked at it.Its the third dealer that the quad has been to.Im convinced that there are no reliable Polaris dealers in the area.So you say,here we go again with Bill bad mouthing Polaris.So be it.Cob,you tell it your way,I'll tell the truth.GOOD DAY---BILL PS,I CANT WAIT FOR THAT RUBICON TO COME OUT.

 

bill UNDERSTAND YOU FRUSTRATION BUT THE PROBLEM IS WITH THE DEALERS NOT POLARIS.yOU WANT TO BAD MOUTH SOMEONE IT SHOULD BE YOUR DEALER,DO YOU THINK THAT POLARIS CALLED HIM AND TOLD HIM NOT TO LOOK AT IT.OOps had cap lock on not going back,I have a dealer here the biggest in colorado that I won't deal with.All the trouble I had a little over month ago with FORD dealers didn't turn me off on FORD.I just kept at it till I found another dealer.Sure i'm a polaris fan but I have nothing bad to say about them,my dealer is great and my machine is second to none.All I was doing was taking care of some missinformation.You know as well as I do there are honda cat or what ever dealers that are just as bad.We have one dealer here in town that has had everything but polaris and I won't deal with them, real shisters,dealing with them has nothing to do with brand but the dealership itself.Rooster posted earlier in this forum,I have no problem with his post,I for one thought it was good, he knew what he was talking about,he had the experience.Some one made a comment why didn't I have anything to say about it,from his view point was all true and I tended to agree with him.It's only when things are inaccurate that I came back in,I didn't pick apart any other machine only put the polaris facts straight.Put the blame where it belongs BILL get out, and picket your dealers there thats where you need to fight.Put a kink in thier pockets we will all benifit by it.Later cob

 

Andrew, the Jeeps with which I am most familar had IRS, which is part of the reason they also had stickers telling the driver never to exceed 45 mph. They were downright dangerous in corners, much like the infamous Chevrolet Corvair.

Most of the vehicles in the "buggy" classes also have IRS, primarily, I believe, since most are based on the Volkswagon rear-engine, which more or less mandates having IRS.

I'm with you, though... if I had an off-road Jeep, I'd sure want a solid rear axle!

Gordon Banks