Originator: mattsibley
Posted: 08-17-1999

The only place I have seen the weight of the vamps in dirt wheels 27" mud tire shoot-out. The 27x12x12 vamps weight in at 34 lbs and 4 oz. They did not have the Bi-Claws in the shoot-out, only the Tri-Claws. The Tri-Claws weighed somewhere close to 34 lbs and 9oz. All I know is that my 25 inch vamps weight a lot more than my stock tires AND rim. They ARE a heavy tire.


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Matt Sibley
1999 Honda 300 4x4 Vampires and 2500 lb. Winch

 

Originator: Shane West
Posted: 08-17-1999

Hey fellas,

My Honda (title to the story)

I am in the process of "un-stocking" my 300. I have 24x9x11 vampires on the front and 25x9.5x11 vampires on the rear. The front differential is LOCKED. The suspension is lifted. It breaths through a K&N filter covered by an Outerwear’s pre-filter. Digests through a dynojet carb kit. And relieves itself through a SuperTrapp muffler. There is a Warn 2000# winch under the front plastic and a come-along on the front rack.
Mounted to the front rack via a bungee cord is a three foot limb from a pecan tree that is used as a spider catcher. I also have the momentary switch mounted for the start-in-gear switch, but have yet to figure out how to hook it up.

I have not had any problems with the quad other than having to replace the battery. Last summer it had started smoking (gray/blue) for about the first ten min. of riding then stopping. It did this for about four months and then quit. It hasn’t smoked since.

I installed a "performance kit" to try and regain some of the ummph that was lost to the vampire tires, I personally have not found that it made any difference. I agree that the tires take away power, but they more than make up for it with phenomenal traction.

I would like to switch over to 26x12x12 vampires on the rear and 25x9x12 vampires on the front. Eventually I will make the switch and use aluminum rims to help save a little weight. I haven’t noticed that the Vampires perform poorly on hard pack. I can ride trails and not have a problem with them. I also spoke to a gentleman who was at the 27" shoot-out and was told that the vampires truly shined when they were climbing up out of a mud hole. Another fella told me that he replaced his vamps with some claws and could not go nearly as many places as he could with the vampires. I can’t confirm this, I’m just relaying the story. I don’t want to offend Gordon because he is after all, the guru of quading.

Also, I would like to have the jug bored and bump the displacement up to the 313cc mark. (All in due time)

Oh Yeah, I removed the stick stoppers from the front of my quad to assist in "mud running". I think that it made a big difference. I’m not having to push the mud with a wall of steel. Maybe around hunting season I’ll put them back on, or maybe not. I haven’t seen any indication that I really need them as of yet, and I go where no man has gone before.

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Shane

’97 Honda 300 4x4 - Vamped, Locked, & Lifted

 

Originator: mcb
Posted: 08-17-1999

Steve - did you have the Vampires before you increased your power?

If so, did you think the stock 300 4x4 was powerful enough for the 24 and 25 inch Vampires you have (i.e. 9 and 9.5)?

If not, what do you think?

There appears to be a difference of opinion on whether the Vampires are too heavy for a stock 300 4x4.

Thanks. Clay Bethel

 

Originator: Gordon_L_Banks
Posted: 08-18-1999

"Does anyone know where I can find information on the actual weight of Vampires and Bi-Claws"

Try a copy of "ATV magazine", Spring 1998 issue, pages 26-33.

"Does anyone know the weights?"

That’s a subject worthy of discussion on its own, since all I have to go by are the magazines, and they’re not exactly well known for their accuracy in reporting! Still, according to this article, here are some weight figures to include the ITP 12x7 steel wheel on which it’s mounted.

Interco Super Swamper Vampire:
9.5" wide, 35 lbs.
12" wide, 47.5 lbs.

Sand Tires Unlimited Mud Machines:
9.5" Bi-Claws, 33.5 lbs.
12.5" Tri-Claws, 37.5 lbs.

Front Tire Difference: 1.5 lbs each
Rear Tire Difference: 10 lbs each

Reviewer Comments: Vampires… "We drove the Vampire Grizzly into a deep and sloppy mud pit, stopped the machine, and tried our best to get it stuck. We couldn’t stick it. With the Vampires mounted, our Grizzly just kept spitting out the mud. We had less fun on the hard pack and in the grass with the Vampires. These tires are about 60% heavier than the stock Dunlop’s, and it’s hard not to feel the weight dragging on the Grizzly. And in the grass, the Vampires caused our Grizzly to perform as if it were on ice. The back end of the machine was very loose…. We didn’t like the feel of the slide, especially on sidehill terrain."

Reviewer Comments: Bi/Tri-Claws… "The Mud Machines worked as well in the mud as the Goodyear Mudrunners and the Interco Vampires. The Mud machines also worked surprisingly well on hard pack. The… Claws give solid grip in any conditions; our Grizzly never slipped with these tires mounted… though the ride was a little rough." They also said that the Claws caused their Grizzly to wander some at trail speeds.

Unlike the two other mud-tire shoot-outs, this one didn’t say anything about using smaller tires on smaller machines, but you can see what they said about feeling the weight of the Vampires, even on a 600cc machine! One other shoot-out had similar comments about the handling of the Vampires on hard ground, too.

"I haven’t noticed the Vampires perform poorly on hard pack. I can ride trails and have not had a problem with them."

This is a good example of why we more or less have to rely on the magazines for whatever info we get. You’ve not noticed any poor handling with your Vamps, and I’ve not noticed any with my Claws. And I hope this is only because you and I haven’t spent the money to do what the reviewers did, which is switch back and forth between the different tires, on the otherwise same machine, on the same terrain, on the same day. Had we been there to take part in the test, maybe we would have agreed, and maybe we wouldn’t. That too is something we will never know. Until we have tried different other tires, how do we know about any difference?

I do feel that I know this much as fact, however, from personal experience, even though on a very limited scale (i.e. very few examples from which to gather experience).

1. I’ve only come across one person EVER with a 4x4 of 400cc or more, who was disappointed with his "aftermarket" tires, and that person is ME!! I will not buy Blackwater XT’s again, due to the high number of flat tires I’ve had with them. But EVERY other rider I’ve talked to, no matter what tire they are using (including two others with Blackwater XT’s). they think it’s an absolute great tire! Two friends of mine love their "Specialty Tires Trail Breakers", while the ATV Magazine test didn’t care for them at all! Note again, Please, that this applies only to riders of 4x4’s of 400cc or more. Frankly, I think this is just another indication that we tend to defend out decisions, rather that think we made a poor choice. But, it’s also true the we generally replace the stock tire with something better, and that’s all we can really compare… the new tire with the old stockers, and nothing else.

2. With riders of smaller 4x4’s, it’s a little different. Most defend their choice, but some, like the case I expressed here, when a rider installed very large tires on a 300 or 350, later regretted the loss of torque. I personally have seen this happen four times now; twice with Vampires on Honda 300’s, once with regular 25" Blackwaters (not the 27" XT’s) on a wolverine (Yamaha 350), and once with 27x9 Blackwater XT’s on a Honda 300. That last example is once again, me! I’ve tried riding my Honda 300 with the 27" XT’s off my 450 (the wheels interchange). It handles them "okay", and they do provide a much more comfortable ride. For general trail riding, I think they’d probably be all right. But the extra height, even though they weight less, absorbs just enough torque to take the edge of the power I like, and what I’m accustomed to. For me, they’re just too tall for the 300, even the Honda.

3. This again is based on limited experience, so all it indicates is a more or less "normal" range of experience. I realize that there will be exceptions, but how much of out resources should we invest in hopeing to overcome "rare" situations? Anyway, I have never personally witnessed one machine go through mud where a similar machine with similar tires couldn’t follow. I’ve ridden my 300 through mud where a Polaris 500 4x4 got stuck, but probably because he had stock tires. I have never encountered a mud hole where a 4x4 with serious mud tires made it through, while other 4x4’s with serious mud tires didn’t. Steve West has 9" and 12" Super Swampers on his Honda 300 (not Vampires), and he’s not been stuck anywhere I’ve gone, or vice versa. If there’s any real difference in capability between one serious mud tire and another, I think it’s probably pretty small.

Think about it. Do your own survey. Take a good look at just how few people will ever express disappointment with something they chose and bought. (No, I’m not a good one to include in your survey. Reviewing and comparing products is a large part of how I make my living - non ATV related though). I’m used to screwing up and buying the wrong stuff! My ATV-related fiasco’s include a 1998 Suzuki 500 4x4, my Blackwater XT tires, a Magellan 4000XL GPS, a set of lightweight aluminum wheels, and more!

"I don’t want to offend Gordon because he is after all, the guru of quading."

That’s right!! Now listen to me!! Go thee from here pure in heart and mind. Go unencumbered by riches, wealth, and worldly possessions. Cast off your valuables and needless toys! Return to a life of simplicity, purity, and harmony with nature. Just put all your cash and good stuff into the trunk of my Mercedes!

"Oh Yeah, I removed the stick stoppers from the front of my quad to assist in "mud running". I think that it made a big difference. I’m not having to push the mud with a wall of steel. Maybe around hunting season I’ll put them back on, or maybe not. I haven’t seen any indication that I really need them as of yet, and I go where no man has gone before."

I think you have a good idea there… as long as you put them back on a few minutes before your need them. I replaced a CV boot once. It reminded me a great deal of "work"! I also like going "where no man has gone before". But I hate seeing all the beer cans and trash left there.

Shortly after I bought my 1997 Kawasaki Prairie 400 4x4, ATV Magazine declared it their "ATV OF THE YEAR". In 1998 they chose the Honda 450ES, but I bought a Suzuki 500 instead. Seven months later, I traded that evil handling monster in and got the 450ES after all. For 1999, the magazine decided that the Bombardier Traxter 500 deserved that award. So what am I buying this year? A 2000 Honda XR400 dirt bike!! Now I ask you… what is wrong with THIS picture??

(Hey you! Don’t put that lawn mower in the trunk of my Mercedes! I said cash an’ good stuff only!)

Have a good day, y’all! I gotta go get that Prairie 400 ready to trade in.

 

This concludes Part II of the original thread. Stay tuned as Parts I and III should be showing up shortly!

Happy Trails

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Steve "Bog Hog" West

Honda 300 4x4 - Gordonized, Powered and Vamped

 

In response to questions