250r back to life!
#41
02-28-2002, 08:37 PM
BeeRock
Who told you that cast pistons crack from not warming up. They crack from age and fatigue as cast pistons are more brittle then the forged pistons. And you can also Cold seize Pro-X pistons if they are set up to tight.
On the subject of the rings, the cylinder is going to contract onto the rings reguardless of which piston you use. that is why you set your ring gaps at aprox. .012 to make up for this expanding and contracting of the cylinder.
Common sense dictates that if the piston expands more when running when you bore and hone a cylinder you set your clearances up to counteract this reaction to heating and cooling. The reason why people have problems with wisecos is point blank they are just to ignorant or lacks the common sense to set them up correctly.
Who told you that cast pistons crack from not warming up. They crack from age and fatigue as cast pistons are more brittle then the forged pistons. And you can also Cold seize Pro-X pistons if they are set up to tight.
On the subject of the rings, the cylinder is going to contract onto the rings reguardless of which piston you use. that is why you set your ring gaps at aprox. .012 to make up for this expanding and contracting of the cylinder.
Common sense dictates that if the piston expands more when running when you bore and hone a cylinder you set your clearances up to counteract this reaction to heating and cooling. The reason why people have problems with wisecos is point blank they are just to ignorant or lacks the common sense to set them up correctly.
#43
02-28-2002, 09:30 PM
#44
02-28-2002, 09:48 PM
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jesus christ! It smokes like crazy! but only because of my rich ratio. I got it going up the street today OMG! its so fast. in second it wanted to rip my hands off the handle bars. I dont think these are meants for the street! I went of a curb and i didnt even know it. This susention soaks everything. i cant even imagine people wanting mods? i do wiegh less than 100 pounds though so it flys!
#45
02-28-2002, 11:02 PM
#46
02-28-2002, 11:27 PM
mp437, I never said the cylinder squeezes the piston and rings, you guys thought that one up!
do any of you really know if a forged piston and ring wears faster or last longer than a cast piston and rings?
Do you?
hmm???
do you have some sort of proof?
hmmmmm
If none of you can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that a forged piston and rings will last longer than a cast piston and rings
then its all hear say isnt it?
How the hell can you tell me im wrong if you dont know?
oh wait, it must last longer because it cost more right?
heh..
none of you have proved that a forged piston and rings will last longer than a cast piston and rings.
can you honestly say that you have?
all you know is that I am saying the wrong things because you know different.
how do you know different if you cant even prove me wrong ?
cast pistons and rings last longer than forged pistons and rings!
do any of you really know if a forged piston and ring wears faster or last longer than a cast piston and rings?
Do you?
hmm???
do you have some sort of proof?
hmmmmm
If none of you can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that a forged piston and rings will last longer than a cast piston and rings
then its all hear say isnt it?
How the hell can you tell me im wrong if you dont know?
oh wait, it must last longer because it cost more right?
heh..
none of you have proved that a forged piston and rings will last longer than a cast piston and rings.
can you honestly say that you have?
all you know is that I am saying the wrong things because you know different.
how do you know different if you cant even prove me wrong ?
cast pistons and rings last longer than forged pistons and rings!
#47
02-28-2002, 11:39 PM
Do you even read the whole replies or just skim them?? I have proven they last at least as long as cast, I got a 2 year old motor with 2 year old pistons(FORGED) and can still see cross hatching from the original hone.
You are the one that said the cylinder squeezes it, read back you said when it cools down the forged dont constrict as fast and the cyl constricts around it causing wear on the bore... so wtf does that mean if it doesnt "squeeze" around it? HELLO! Constrict=squeeze in this sense.
I think you need to practice what you preach, you havent ran forged pistons in years and think you know which is better? YOU are the one thats accusing forged pistons of wearing out the bore, we never really said forged pistons will last longer, WAIT! YOU said forged pistons last longer too, you said they will outlast the bore... so you're proving yourself to be a moron... Again, You are the one making accusations, lets see you're proof, so far you're only proof is what someone told you years ago and you are following his advice like a lil lost puppy.
To clear things up I dont run a forged piston because it lasts longer, I run a forged piston because it will withstand the pounding my motor goes through, Banshee with 210 PSI and +8 timing advance with full drag porting. Ive seen lesser banshees eat cast pistons for lunch, seen 2 break the piston in half and a chunk of the skirt fell into the bottom end. My motor builder has an 85 atc that he just barely ran out of overbores on last summer and he RACES every weekend on that bike since he bought it new in 85, guess what, with a FORGED piston. You are the one without facts to backup whats spilling out of your mouth(err hands?) so I think you should read back over what we said, and what YOU said before you write the next reply.
You are the one that said the cylinder squeezes it, read back you said when it cools down the forged dont constrict as fast and the cyl constricts around it causing wear on the bore... so wtf does that mean if it doesnt "squeeze" around it? HELLO! Constrict=squeeze in this sense.
I think you need to practice what you preach, you havent ran forged pistons in years and think you know which is better? YOU are the one thats accusing forged pistons of wearing out the bore, we never really said forged pistons will last longer, WAIT! YOU said forged pistons last longer too, you said they will outlast the bore... so you're proving yourself to be a moron... Again, You are the one making accusations, lets see you're proof, so far you're only proof is what someone told you years ago and you are following his advice like a lil lost puppy.
To clear things up I dont run a forged piston because it lasts longer, I run a forged piston because it will withstand the pounding my motor goes through, Banshee with 210 PSI and +8 timing advance with full drag porting. Ive seen lesser banshees eat cast pistons for lunch, seen 2 break the piston in half and a chunk of the skirt fell into the bottom end. My motor builder has an 85 atc that he just barely ran out of overbores on last summer and he RACES every weekend on that bike since he bought it new in 85, guess what, with a FORGED piston. You are the one without facts to backup whats spilling out of your mouth(err hands?) so I think you should read back over what we said, and what YOU said before you write the next reply.
#48
02-28-2002, 11:48 PM
The Facility
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Boy, Beerock, I thought you just had a problem with me. Man......you just have a problem PERIOD
There isn't a right or a wrong answer on which one is better than the other. It depends on the engine and what type of abuse the engine is put through. Thats all.
Engines with cast iron sleeves without the nikasil coating tend to hold up better with forged pistons, but do run hotter in engines ran hard due to the expansion rate you are referring to.
Engines with the nikasil coating will last longer with a cast piston because the cast piston will not expand as much as the forged, which would eventually cause the rings to wear into the coating itself. On these engines, you have to decide between the risk of the piston melting and destroying the lining with the forged pistons..OR...using a cast piston that could break easily under pre-detonation causing damage to your cylinder coating. that's why most guys using the forged pistons in nikasil engines run larger ring gaps. But when they do this, they are running a larger ring gap until the engine reaches operating temprature. that's the only reason that the motorcycles use cast. Not because of the reasons that you list.
All two stroke quads have the cylinder without the coating unless you have had it done. Thats why most people run the forged. Then there are alot of guys use the cast also. There is no right or wrong here. There are just as many race teams that use forged as there are cast.
Pretty simple Beerock. And I DO have the facts to back up my claims.
10 years as one of the premiere suppliers to both ATV racers and Dirtbike racers in the South.
There isn't a right or a wrong answer on which one is better than the other. It depends on the engine and what type of abuse the engine is put through. Thats all.
Engines with cast iron sleeves without the nikasil coating tend to hold up better with forged pistons, but do run hotter in engines ran hard due to the expansion rate you are referring to.
Engines with the nikasil coating will last longer with a cast piston because the cast piston will not expand as much as the forged, which would eventually cause the rings to wear into the coating itself. On these engines, you have to decide between the risk of the piston melting and destroying the lining with the forged pistons..OR...using a cast piston that could break easily under pre-detonation causing damage to your cylinder coating. that's why most guys using the forged pistons in nikasil engines run larger ring gaps. But when they do this, they are running a larger ring gap until the engine reaches operating temprature. that's the only reason that the motorcycles use cast. Not because of the reasons that you list.
All two stroke quads have the cylinder without the coating unless you have had it done. Thats why most people run the forged. Then there are alot of guys use the cast also. There is no right or wrong here. There are just as many race teams that use forged as there are cast.
Pretty simple Beerock. And I DO have the facts to back up my claims.
10 years as one of the premiere suppliers to both ATV racers and Dirtbike racers in the South.
#49
03-01-2002, 12:03 AM
<< do any of you really know if a forged piston and ring wears faster or last longer than a cast piston and rings? >>
I do. I've run both. It doesn't matter for ring longevity one bit. As I said before, this is why there is a ring end gap.
<< all you know is that I am saying the wrong things because you know different. >>
I've already proven you wrong.
<< cast pistons and rings last longer than forged pistons and rings! >>
No they don't. The rings on a cast piston last just as long as rings on a forged piston.
Please, I've owned 250R's and other two strokes since I was 12 years old, I do know, as I've used just about every piston out there under the sun. I do know, and I can back it up. Want to see my used piston and rings collection?
#50
03-01-2002, 12:06 AM
hey knowsalot, how do I have a problem if there is no wrong or right?
you kind of agreed with my point by saying what you said about the forged piston with out nikasil.
<< Engines with cast iron sleeves without the nikasil coating tend to hold up better with forged pistons, but do run hotter in engines ran hard due to the expansion rate you are referring to. >>
Doesnt the heat makes the engine life shorter????????
I was not wrong with what I said!
I have to take back somethings I said about knowslalot, sorry.
I was waiting for someone to straighten up this mess, because I tried and tried to make people understand.
you kind of agreed with my point by saying what you said about the forged piston with out nikasil.
<< Engines with cast iron sleeves without the nikasil coating tend to hold up better with forged pistons, but do run hotter in engines ran hard due to the expansion rate you are referring to. >>
Doesnt the heat makes the engine life shorter????????
I was not wrong with what I said!
I have to take back somethings I said about knowslalot, sorry.
I was waiting for someone to straighten up this mess, because I tried and tried to make people understand.