Even if we get a 450ex
#11
10-04-2002, 12:54 PM
In my eyes, to me the whole quad scene is gettting bigger and bigger. Your arguing that the quad racing thing is getting to exspensive? Look how much it takes to get into NASCAR, or even like you said, McGrath's place... it takes Cash and alot of it. It sucks but thats the way it is.
I raced for a year, loved it but it costs way to much, and if you ask me, Id rather go up to my cabin and ride on my own track for free! and i ge to ride for more than an hour.
I raced for a year, loved it but it costs way to much, and if you ask me, Id rather go up to my cabin and ride on my own track for free! and i ge to ride for more than an hour.
#12
10-04-2002, 01:00 PM
re-read my post. Expense is the lesser issue.
However, to counter your point - VERY few people ride at MC or RC's level. If you do, you get the free ride. If you don't ride at that level, it's quite likely you don't need the Works machines they ride.
In bike MX racing, you can buy a competitive machine off the show room floor and race it the next day.
In ATV racing, there's only one brand you can buy that will be halfway competitive out of the box. Otherwise you will need to spend $10,000 or more to bring the machine up to par to race at the LOCAL expert (and in some cases "B"
level. In bike racing you can race at that level on a basically stock machine.
Why is this? See my above post.
However, to counter your point - VERY few people ride at MC or RC's level. If you do, you get the free ride. If you don't ride at that level, it's quite likely you don't need the Works machines they ride.
In bike MX racing, you can buy a competitive machine off the show room floor and race it the next day.
In ATV racing, there's only one brand you can buy that will be halfway competitive out of the box. Otherwise you will need to spend $10,000 or more to bring the machine up to par to race at the LOCAL expert (and in some cases "B"
level. In bike racing you can race at that level on a basically stock machine.Why is this? See my above post.
#13
10-04-2002, 01:02 PM
#14
10-04-2002, 01:09 PM
you dont have to spend 10K just to get racing. I started racing 2 weeks after i got my 400ex. I was doing fine...the thing that should be changed is the quads the companies are putting out, but then you do that and the aftermarket companies go under... so I persnonally think we were doing just fine before this Post was made, heh.
#15
10-04-2002, 01:24 PM
If you were racing MX, you were in an area that's not extremely competitive, or at the extreme beginner's level - and aren't you the one that just said "I raced for a year, loved it but it costs way to much"...
A stock 400EX is not going to be very competitive at a race with very many people, especially if they're allowing CRF450R or custom cylinder'd 250R quads in even the "B" classes.
The fact remains that you can currently buy a dirtbike off the showroom floor from any manufacturer that will be competitive at all but the top national levels - you can't even begin to say that about quads (excluding the higher end $10,000+ Cannondales).
Now, if you are racing cross country, it's a little different story, but I've got over $10,000 in my cross country 400EX as well...
Either way, you are still missing the jist of the main point I was trying to make...
A stock 400EX is not going to be very competitive at a race with very many people, especially if they're allowing CRF450R or custom cylinder'd 250R quads in even the "B" classes.
The fact remains that you can currently buy a dirtbike off the showroom floor from any manufacturer that will be competitive at all but the top national levels - you can't even begin to say that about quads (excluding the higher end $10,000+ Cannondales).
Now, if you are racing cross country, it's a little different story, but I've got over $10,000 in my cross country 400EX as well...
Either way, you are still missing the jist of the main point I was trying to make...
#16
10-04-2002, 01:38 PM
wow alot of you on this post are talking like if it werent for those dam people with there $20000 quads that youd be a pro rider. well i think your full of bulls*it.
and other coments about is it the rider or the wallet come on now i have a lot of money in my quad and i have been beat by stock 400ex the guy was a great rider wooped me. and pro supercross riders have alot more money in to there bikes than $20000 so how do you think you can buy a bike form the showroom and be competive?
my point is the rules are fine and a side note hell no it should not be raised to 450cc four strokes are all ready keeping up with the 2 strokes its close to even now why give either one a advantage.
and other coments about is it the rider or the wallet come on now i have a lot of money in my quad and i have been beat by stock 400ex the guy was a great rider wooped me. and pro supercross riders have alot more money in to there bikes than $20000 so how do you think you can buy a bike form the showroom and be competive?
my point is the rules are fine and a side note hell no it should not be raised to 450cc four strokes are all ready keeping up with the 2 strokes its close to even now why give either one a advantage.
#17
10-04-2002, 02:21 PM
Someone always has to "remind" us of the rider factor.
Thank you, we know. This subject is not about riders. It's about the availablitly of machinery.
In racing, if the classes are set to a particular skill level and you don't have sandbaggers, the equipment makes a huge difference.
Of course a first time rider isn't going to be a "Pro Racer" if you sit him on a $20,000 quad. However, let's say in your class is a bunch of 400EX's. One of the guys decides to max out his cards and buys a Walsh chassis, Axis shocks, and a CRF450R engine - what do you think's going to happen.
It's not just top Pro's riding custom machines anymore, motorcycle engined and/or custom framed quads are showing up more and more even at the local level.
Still not the point, the point is we need production machines winning races (even if they have $50,000 worth titanium in them) - it's all about local joe blow being able think to himself "I saw Z400's dominating the races in the magazine, that's what I need". It's not a fast process, but that's what eventually leads to what the dirtbike world enjoys right now for choices, quality, and performance.
It may not seem like it now, but some day you'll want to replace your R, when that day comes, wouldn't it be nice if you had some decent machines to choose from and not the level of equipment that's currently available.
and pro supercross riders have alot more money in to there bikes than $20000 so how do you think you can buy a bike form the showroom and be competive?
{shaking head} - READ before you post. I specifically said I wasn't talking about top level national Supercross - they do, however have very stringent chassis and engine rules based on *PRODUCTION* machines - see my first post as to why this part is so important.
There is *FAR* more to motorcycle racing than the top 10 Supercross riders or outdoor motocross. The point is, you can buy a brand new CR250R, YZ, RM, etc and go to your local or state motocross and be perfectly comptitive in basically any class with *MINOR* preference changes. You do not have to buy new shocks, you do not have to swap the engine or really even open the engine, you do not have to buy new forks. You have a state of the art race machine straight out of the box that only needs minor tuning.
The same can't be said of quads. Look at yours for instance.
**** Why do you think this is ****
Again, you have missed the point - re-read my first post, then the 2nd, etc, etc. Give it a minute to sink in. Then flame me if you must, but at least if you do, make sure you've taken a second to see what I have really said...
Thank you, we know. This subject is not about riders. It's about the availablitly of machinery.
In racing, if the classes are set to a particular skill level and you don't have sandbaggers, the equipment makes a huge difference.
Of course a first time rider isn't going to be a "Pro Racer" if you sit him on a $20,000 quad. However, let's say in your class is a bunch of 400EX's. One of the guys decides to max out his cards and buys a Walsh chassis, Axis shocks, and a CRF450R engine - what do you think's going to happen.
It's not just top Pro's riding custom machines anymore, motorcycle engined and/or custom framed quads are showing up more and more even at the local level.
Still not the point, the point is we need production machines winning races (even if they have $50,000 worth titanium in them) - it's all about local joe blow being able think to himself "I saw Z400's dominating the races in the magazine, that's what I need". It's not a fast process, but that's what eventually leads to what the dirtbike world enjoys right now for choices, quality, and performance.
It may not seem like it now, but some day you'll want to replace your R, when that day comes, wouldn't it be nice if you had some decent machines to choose from and not the level of equipment that's currently available.
and pro supercross riders have alot more money in to there bikes than $20000 so how do you think you can buy a bike form the showroom and be competive?
{shaking head} - READ before you post. I specifically said I wasn't talking about top level national Supercross - they do, however have very stringent chassis and engine rules based on *PRODUCTION* machines - see my first post as to why this part is so important.
There is *FAR* more to motorcycle racing than the top 10 Supercross riders or outdoor motocross. The point is, you can buy a brand new CR250R, YZ, RM, etc and go to your local or state motocross and be perfectly comptitive in basically any class with *MINOR* preference changes. You do not have to buy new shocks, you do not have to swap the engine or really even open the engine, you do not have to buy new forks. You have a state of the art race machine straight out of the box that only needs minor tuning.
The same can't be said of quads. Look at yours for instance.
**** Why do you think this is ****
Again, you have missed the point - re-read my first post, then the 2nd, etc, etc. Give it a minute to sink in. Then flame me if you must, but at least if you do, make sure you've taken a second to see what I have really said...
#18
10-05-2002, 01:00 AM
#19
10-05-2002, 01:16 AM
The Facility
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I agree with everything atc250r has said thus far.
Throw out the motorcycle engines and make a Production rule for the pro class.
The motorcycle engined riders would have to sell their quads?? What's the big story there?? Nearly every pro rider sells his machine each year for a new one anyway.
Why did the Honda 250R gain legendary status?? Because that's the quad that prooved to be the best at the time, even with a stock frame. The aftermarket frame revolution didn't start until around 1991 and I think Denton, Shepard, and Ehrhardt were the only guys running them that year. That's when things really took off aftermarket wise for the 250R.
So don't think for a minute that a Production Class rule eliminating the motorcycle engines would hurt the sport. Keeping them there will.
My .02
Throw out the motorcycle engines and make a Production rule for the pro class.
The motorcycle engined riders would have to sell their quads?? What's the big story there?? Nearly every pro rider sells his machine each year for a new one anyway.
Why did the Honda 250R gain legendary status?? Because that's the quad that prooved to be the best at the time, even with a stock frame. The aftermarket frame revolution didn't start until around 1991 and I think Denton, Shepard, and Ehrhardt were the only guys running them that year. That's when things really took off aftermarket wise for the 250R.
So don't think for a minute that a Production Class rule eliminating the motorcycle engines would hurt the sport. Keeping them there will.
My .02
#20
10-05-2002, 09:01 AM
i sorry i did come off like i was flaming at first was not trying to do that.
but i just dont agree, look at every motor sport sooner or latter you have to spent money to be competive. yeah you can buy a cr 250 and be competive in b or c class but most the people in them classes that are in front have a pipe and maby a little porting. im not sure how it works where you guys race but if you have people with tons of mods wooping on everyone why have them not been made to move up to the next class thats how it works here. i got wooped by a guy on a stock dale (yes a stock bike) the guy beat every body in c and everybody in b he was running c so the track made him move up to a.
as for some day i will want to get a new quad your right but i think there is a qquad in production right now that is competive out the box and its pushing other brand quad to build better quads. im not selling my r right now but when i do ill prob. get a moto.
but i just dont agree, look at every motor sport sooner or latter you have to spent money to be competive. yeah you can buy a cr 250 and be competive in b or c class but most the people in them classes that are in front have a pipe and maby a little porting. im not sure how it works where you guys race but if you have people with tons of mods wooping on everyone why have them not been made to move up to the next class thats how it works here. i got wooped by a guy on a stock dale (yes a stock bike) the guy beat every body in c and everybody in b he was running c so the track made him move up to a.
as for some day i will want to get a new quad your right but i think there is a qquad in production right now that is competive out the box and its pushing other brand quad to build better quads. im not selling my r right now but when i do ill prob. get a moto.
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