Hey haven't I seen this post before? [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

Anyhow, I have seen a Mojave built by a guy with enough money to do whatever he wanted. He was at the TT races every weekend. He eventually sold the quad and was regularly beatin by 250X's! Dont get me worng, it was a nice quad to have, but not for building or racing.

 

Actually if you put a 416 kit in an ex with a xr cam, pipe,rejet and a k&n you will make what the average stock z does in hp. The 1 to 2 difference is a joke. Most stock z's are making from 31 to 33 in stock trim. An ex won't make that even with a pipe and filter. they are just starting to unleash the power in the zs. And they have already proven that they can get close to 50 hp without stroking the engine. The ex has been around since 99 and they have had plenty of time to get the hp combo's out of them. The z is just getting started. You need to ride both of these quads in stock trim after they are both broken in well. The only reason the ex was even close in the write up in ATV Sport was because they had to launch the z in second due to massive amounts of wheelspin. They even ran them on a loose surface on purpose to even up the race and they tell you that in the article. The modded DRZ bikes are running with the YZ426s in the GNCCs. Most of those same parts will eventually find their way over to the z crowd. How many xr400s are racing? And the ex is not detuned. It will barely pick up 1.5 hp with a pipe compared to the z gaining 5 to 7 hp. I have nothing against an ex and I intend on getting a used one for my son as I like their reliablity but they are far from being impressive in comparison to the new crop of sport quads out there.

 

Compared to the stock Z compression numbers the EX is detuned. Raise the compression on the Z and you will have more HP!

 

ModdedX - what do you ride? What mods?

You keep talking about compression ratio - know what the compression ratio is on a Basnhee? About 6.5:1. Yep, pretty low but it makes a lot of power. You need to understand HOW compression makes power - more doesn't necessarily mean better. There is a lot more to making HP that compression ratios.

HIGHLY modified 440ex engines can barely get into the upper 40s for HP... Granted, you can make almost any engine powerful but how far from stock to get the power is what we care about. The Suzuki will ALWAYS have more potential than the EX motor.

With the same exact mods the Z will make more and more HP vs the EX. The Raptor is the same way - choked up from the factory with a lot of potential.

 

Currenlty I ride a 250X with alot of suspension mods and I am wokring on the engine at the moment.

Ok, when I am comparing compression, I am comparing to similar motors, 4 strokes. You bring in a 2 stroke which is totally different!

And as far as your comment about its hard to get 40hp out of a 440 ex, where is your proof of this? TC was getting 50HP out of 265 250X engines back in 91/92! The limit back then was 265 cc! So you are saying it is hard getting 40 out of a 440cc 4 stroke? I fond that hard to believe, with my above example!

With almost any engine, you raise the compression, you raise the power!

 

ModdedX you need to check out some of the engine builders websites before you go posting your info. The only 250 Honda has that has ever hit that Hp level is the 250R and it takes considerable mods on those. I had a new one and not too long ago I had a used one with a 310 kit in it that still didn't make much over 50hp. Trew's 500EX is just barely making 50 horsepower. You need to go ride these quads you are talking about before you post your info. Raising the compression without porting the head or changing the bore will get you maybe 1 horsepower. That will move the ex from 27 up to 28 horsepower and the Z is still setting at 31.2 to 33 horsepower in stock trim. OK now with your raised compression add a pipe that will put you at 30 horsepower tops. have you ever even rode a broke in Z or 400EX that were both stock? if you were to raise the compression on the z to 12.5 change the cams and carb and add a pipe you would be in the mid 40s in horsepower. It takes a very healthy 416 or 440EX to reach that number. It can be done but it will take more parts. The Z has way more potential just like the Raptor has more potential than the Z and the Banshee has more potential than all 3 of them. The Ex was a great machine when it was new but it has fell behind the times. Yes they are still doing good in the races because there is strength in numbers. But they are losing ground there. And I believe the Cannondale's will be taking over the 4 stroke stock class due to their technology and fuel injection. In stock trim there is no currently produced quad that will outrun a Dale in stock trim. A 400EX in stock trim is about 15 horsepower behind a stock Dale with a Moto map in the ecm.

 

I have been aroudn the racing scene since the late 80's... You think my numbers are off on the HP of the 250X? Call TC!!!! He was pumping 50HP out of a 250X back then when Travis Spader was smokin everyone on a 4 stroke and there was a 265cc limit back then. I talked to TC about a year ago and he even told me he could get 50HP out of my current 250X and the price was rather cheap! So I think you better get on the phone and do some checking before you think I dont know anything! Hell, call Sparks, I am sure he will comfirm this also as he can pull some nice HP out of an X also! And were talking 265cc, not 400-660!!!!

I have ridden a stock 400(my brother had one for a year or so and then got out of 4 wheelers), I have ridden a Raptor, Banshee, 250R, 250X Majoave, etc... I have ridden most of these macines with mods done to them also! All of them out there except for some of these new quads(Z, Canni, DS, Pred.).... We used to hit just about every National in the late 80's early 90's and I had a friend that was 8th in the nation at that time.

All I am saying with the compression is, you bump the EX up to the Z specs(comp, head flow, valve size, etc) You are going ot make similar if not better HP! With "old" technology.

And who is Trew? Granted I haven't followed racing as closely as I used lately, but the name doesn't strike a cord. What type of racing does he do? Who builds his engines?

And granted the Dale has alot of horse and great acceleration due to the EFI, but why compare a stock 400 to a modded Dale? Why not compare bottom of the barrel Dale, since the Moto is technically modded? Granted it is a factory built quad, but a racing specific built quad whereas the 400ex is a general built quad for everyday riding.

 

Moddedx,
I'm disappionted in you!! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

Haven't we gone over these very things in a thread JUST LIKE this one in the past few days in the EX drag racing thread? I thought we finally understood each other. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

Please accept that fact that the Suzi is more up to date than the EX. Yes! You can make an EX fly, but it will take more parts/money and it will still not have some of the "necessary" features the Suzi has. You also keep mentioning to lighten the flywheel on the EX. Bad idea. You will lose a lot of low end power by doing so and prob. lose a great deal of the trail riding ability of the machine. And, you have to realize, from being around the racing scene for so long, that compression, yes, will yeild more power, but there is a lot more to it than that. Compression alone is not what is going to make the ex up to par with the Z. However, the EX is a great machine.

C'mon dude, we've gone round and round about this, too. Your true Honda, I know it, I accept it. However, times are a changin' my friend. Honda will come out with something new. Just give them time. But, right now the EX has a lot to deal with and it's just not keeping up.

 

TC can't even get 50 horsepower out of a 400EX without increasing the bore and stroke. The 265 kit is the max cc for the 2 stroke R in legal AMA trim at that time. 50 Horsepower out of a 400EX will cost you a bunch. Ricky Carmichel is only making 60 with his R in supercross trim. If you can really get 50 hp out of a 250 four stroke do you honestly think everyone would be racing the 40 hp 440 EXs? Me thinks your pulling stuff out of your shorts.

 

Zooki - bottom line call TC, he will tell you the same! He was doing it way back in the early 90's! 50hp out of a 250X engine!
TOM CARLSON 814-723-3514

Check out his site: www.tcracingengines.com He has a pic of Spaders 250X engine right on the main page(only page working now actually)...

And yes, the CC limit for the 4 strokes at that time was around 265. We used to race and go to most of the nationals those years, I know. I used to watch Spader everytime he came to the local TT track. In the open class, he would beat Banshees on his X!