Wow Pete, you typed all that just to agree with him? My 250R is still a "sport" quad. It will always be a sport quad. Sport and High Performance are one in the same. As degrading as it may be, your Cannondale, and even the Moto 440 are still ranked in the same category as the Lakota Sport.

Duneattict, I agree with you. Until there is a 300cc(or under) 4 stroke made, I'll be a 2 stroke guy. I think that it is pathetic for everyone to think the new YZ and CRF motors are the best thing since sliced bread. Yes, they are very awesome motors, but let's do a test of power to weight ratio. The CRF motor is very high strung, so I'm not sure much more modding would do any good... A built R motor vs a built CRF motor would be an embarassment to Honda Technology.

 

The 250R was obsolete a long long time ago, but how many of you drive a 250R and not a jigsaw of aftermarket or modified stuff?
Take a STOCK, for real bone stock 250r out to a race track and see how it does against some of the new stockers.

Also, a stock hyabusa engine, if made into a 1 cylinder would be a 325, and would make ~46.25. And we all know a busa can be modded for more HP. Dunno if it could rev as high as a 1 cylinder though. On the other hand though, I will always be a 2 stroke fan, its just a better Idea, would be perfect if somone would put some technology into it. A real high tech 2 stroke would use more gas than a high tech 4 stroke per size, but rate it per HP and there probably wont be much difference, the 2 stroke would actually come out ahead. Besides they even weigh less, which would help gas mileage even more.

 

I beg to differ Jakal, a bone stock 250r would do fairly well on a track when compared to the new "high tech" machine due to it's low weight and geometry.

 

What I was TRYING to say was... it being a 2 or 4 stroke doesn't determine whether or not it's a race quad or sport quad. IMO, since I'm into MX, wether or not the quad is set up for MX and could actually be competative is the deciding factor on whether it's a sport or race quad. I don't think the manufacterers label on the quad is what counts. It's how it's set up.

I agree'd with Duneaddict for the most part, but with a few slight modifications to his opinion [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img] [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img].

 

Young grasshopper, the world does not revolve around MX.

 

Well what can I say... I'm a shallow minded, self centered person [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img].

 

Well Said MXDALE71, The newer 4 strokers are very impressive in comparison to the 4 strokers of the late 80's and early 90's....With excellent power delivery, No arguement there... Vast Improvements have been made!

I can only fantasize about a NEW production 400cc 2 stroke machine (Heck, I'd be really happy with a 250cc too!), and what potential that could hold... I mean if the 4 strokes can advance that much, how much improvement could have been made on the 2 strokers??? Look at the snowmobile market? 150HP from a twin 800cc motor... divide that by two, and you've got 75hp from a 400cc jug (And those are STOCK #'s).... Makes my nipples hard just thinking about it!

That's what I'm saying.... We're comparing my antiques ('86 & '87 models) against todays technology... And I must say, todays technology still cant run with the oldies. (At least HP wise)
Likewise, 2 strokes respond very well to modifications, while the 4 strokers can be improved... not as much is to be gained for the $$

IMO, if the R&D would have been spent on the 2 strokers instead of the 4 strokers, the enviro-****'s wouldn't have anything over the 2 strokers... they can be made to run clean, in fact mebbe even cleaner than the 4 strokers.... I just don't get it!

An awesome chassis is only 50% of the equation. In the old days, you didn't need wider A-arms, new shocks or any of that stuff to win... Just open up the motor a little so it can breathe, and hang on. Hence, my point of "Full Race Quad" Gotta have motor (HP) and Chassis as a package.

SO I'll call it a draw! You have valid points, and I think we're kind of dabbling from slightly different backgrounds. I'm too fat and old to MX anymore (ALthough I stomped many a banshee around an MX track a decade ago) and now strickly "SPORT" ride my race bred machines around the sand dunes and drag race.

Regards,

 

If I'm not mistaken, I think Honda did actually make a 2-stroke that ran cleaner than todays 4-strokes. Unfortunately tree-huggers are a different breed of people and unlike us they won't listen to anyone elses opinion if it contradicts theirs in any way. Just makes me mad.

I'm not 100% on the way Honda's clean runnin 2-stroke worked, but I think it was something similar to a deisel motor. It's been so long since I've read that article though, that I really couldn't say much about it.

 

Sorry Rob, they don't. It's dead even with a stock 400ex....and we know where that sits in all the shootouts. Great handling bikes with mediocre power....

I personally would like to see the fall of the 250r soon also. I also LOVE the smell of a two stroke in the morning before a race, nothing like it on earth...but times are a changin.

 

MXDALE71: I think I saw that same article! But it's been a while, and CRS has settled in (Can't remember SH%*)

I have also recently (Within the past couple years) heard the Honda Camp make the statement that 'there will be NO more new 2 strokes from Honda'..... boat motors, lawn mowers, and eventually dirt bikes.
Sad! Very Sad!

JCV400EX: I have yet to see a 400EX run with a 250R... Mebbe I've got my head in the sand? Are there any 17 year old 250R's around that are still completely stock? (Besides mine LOL)
"excellent handling and mediocre power".... seems that's what I've been complaining about with the last two posts...

We're all discussing the 'fall' or when the mighty 250R is obsolete, when it's only a meager 17 years old... Hence, my point again. If the manufacturers would get off their duff, and build a FULL RACE quad, we wouldn't even be comparing it to the old dinosaur now would we.
Times, they are a changin' but that doesn't mean we have to bend over and take it without a fight!
(One way of fighting is to not support the new stuff with hard earned $$$$$, and if others followed suit, they just might build something we all want)