I don't see any advantage of Honda using the XR650 motor over the CRF450. The horsepower difference between the two isn't that great (xr650 torque monster-CRF super high RPM's) and the CRF motor would have a huge advantage due to a lower center of gravity and would be way lighter. I think that the 650 motor in a quad chassis would suffer from alot of the same problems as the Raptor (tippy, excessive wheeling). That's just my opinion though.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

 

I agree with you partially wes660r. Here is a couple of other thoughts.

1. One reason people buy the Raptor is horse power potential. In the long run if your a power freak the XR650r motor will have more potential. Personaly I prefer the 450 because of weight and the fact that I think high 40's to mid 50's is perfect for hp if your not into drag racing or don't have a lot of wide open areas to ride in.

2. The Raptor didn't have to be tippy Yamaha new that the engine was tall and that the frame had to be as well so why make it 2" more narrow than a 400ex that already has a lower seat hieght? Add a little over an inch to the stock a-arms and 2.5 - 3 inches to the stock axle would do a lot. They also could have designed the stock shock setup and shock valving to let it sit about an inch or so lower without much problem and it wouldn't have cost a ton of money for them to make it this way. I don't think it would add much if any weight if done right.

just my .02 anyways
Peace wes, Diggler

 

Diggler, if you look at my mods you can see excactly what you mentioned about the stock Raptor I have fixxed (though I wish it weighed closer to 350lbs. vs. 400lbs). With the Elka SSD shocks it pushes the A-arms out a good 2-4 inches on the front end. I think with the mods I made it handles as good as a 400ex if not better. Yamaha could make the Raptor a much better bike with a change to a zero-preload style shocks, the Banshee axle (why they haven't done this I can't understand, it's already in their inventory) and a set of tires w/ less sidewall flex. Maybe we'll get lucky and see some of these changes in the 2004's!

 

I don't see why they don't use the Banshee axle either. I'm just saying when they designed the bike they could have made the a-arms a little wider as well and whether or not they used zps or ssd style shocks (if they scream cost) they could have still used a mount/shock/shock valving style that would have made it sit lower as well. My 400ex was about 45.5" wide in the rear and I believe around 43.5 or 44" wide in the front. The Raptor is listed by Yamaha at 43.3 or 43.5 and there are any number of ways you and I have mentioned that Yamaha could fix this at little cost to them. Realisticaly they could just upgrade some things on the Raptor and maybe shave a few pounds and be tearing every one a new @$$.

I would love to see Honda release both bikes a 450 and a 650 if they both had good suspension and aluminum frames they would make a killing if they could stop themselves from getting crazy with the detuning like they always do. I think from the XR400 dirt bike to the 400ex the engine was detuned by 9 hp which would probably be around 6 or 7hp at the rear wheels. If they did this and the 400ex had 30hp at the rear wheels would it still seem so outdated? People would scream about liquid cooling and maybe reverse but speed wise it would be as fast as a Z400 if not faster.

 

Honda could easily make the 400ex into a 450ex that runs on pump gas while retaining it's reliability. I am glad my bike is not watercooled and living out west, I don't care about reverse. [not that I cared about it when I lived in the midwest]. Would it be faster than Z400? Ask every Z and Raptor [except for my buddies 686] I raced up the hill at Gordon's Well and Buttercup this weekend and I didn't have my FCR on the bike this weekend.

Still, Honda would be best served to add reverse to the 400 and let the new 400exr replace the 300ex.

Magazines and bench racer's are all hooked on watercooling but if you don't need it WHO CARES? Remember, Honda and Suzuki have tried on numerous occasions over the years to take over Harley's spot as the king of dirt track racing but somehow that ole XR keeps winning and that thing has about as much technology as Model T.

 

Though I haven't kept up with the street bike scence for a year or so, I do know that Honda was having problems with the fuel injection on the CBR929RR and the CBR600F4i....for what that's worth. I'd be happy with carbs...whatever Honda does come out with, it'll be ****-up.

 

We are probably looking at another couple years before a new EX comes out. At the earliest the new model EX would probably be a 2005 model and then I'd give it a year or so to work out any problems. (Like the axle and frame on the 400Z problems.) Honda's have had their problems. Just type in "Honda atv recalls"and you'll see a couple. So people might as well buy something now and then possibly trade it in after a couple years when Honda finally comes out with something. If the new Honda is worth it later. It's kind of ironic because there are alot of sites from just before the 400EX was coming out. The old sites all ask what the new articles ask. "When is Honda going to come out with a new sport quad?"
Last night I was reading an older article online about Honda releasing a 400EXR with liquid cooling. A week ago it was about the crf450 high-performance quad. The magazine writers act like they know something then they write about different "new" quads. I do believe that certain magazines know what the new quad will be. But they throw out some bit of info or a photo of Honda talking to a racer.
They were right there and don't know what is going on? Give me a break! ATV companies work with after market parts companies so that when a new quad comes out, there are lots of after market parts to buy for it. None of these magazines can find out from their connections what the new quad is going to be with these after market parts companies? I'd like to see an atv magazine report a story instead of setting up the BIG story and playing the puppet.

 

I don't think the mags have any idea what Honda is up to. There werent any spy photos of the Rincon because Honda is better than the CIA at keeping secrets. I would be a little suprised if Honda didn't anounce a new sport quad this year and that's not because we all want one it's becuase of dealer pressure. It's no secret that a lot of Honda dealerships are a little PO'ed right now because they are loosing sales because of the Z400/KFX400. I'm sure all the other quads are making a dent in Honda sales as well. The dealers want to make money now and Honda isn't helping them especially if they want to make Honda exclusive dealerships like Harley did. If this quad has been in developement for as long as the supposed insiders claim I don't think you'll have to wait for to many bugs to be worked out the 400ex and 300ex have remained pretty much unchanged since their introduction. Most Honda recalls are either 4x4 recalls or assembly problems. You can find a 400ex recall on brakes but it has nothing to do with design or bugs it has to do with improper assembly.

Adding another 50cc to the 400ex wouldn't accomplish much because you would have to increase the compression and use a different cam as well which is where the problems with air cooled engines come out. The 400ex's compression is either 9.2 : 1 or 9:4 :1 which isn't much when other 400cc class quads like the z/kfx and the Cannondales are getting 11.2 : 1 and 12.5 : 1 and they all run on pump gas. Most engine builders recommend cooling mods for the 400ex for anything above 10.5 : 1 and cooling mods are good idea for any 400ex anyways.

 

I would trust Honda more than anyone with a first year bike. We had a 1985 350x forever. First year for them, and that thing gave us no troubles at all. I still regret selling that bike. I could eat 400ex's all day on it.

Hopefully the new bike is around a 650 with more stock hp than the current bikes (raptor,ds650, kawasucky 700). They have the advantage of being the last company to make one of these big bikes. They know what they have to beat. If they come out wiht a bike that has the Rincon motor stuffed in it and the auto tranny as well as shaft drive like kawasucky, im going to be pissed.

 

I don't want to see the rincon motor or the auto tranny either. I say give us 2 quads CRF450ex and XR650ex and then drop the price of the 400ex $1000 and they would be rippin'.