Last Tuesday, I had so much fun testing the DG holeshot module and reporting the results on this forum (see "DG Holeshot Drag Times on Asphalt"), that I thought I should do more timed test runs to compare the effect of using a stock P700 primary spring versus the stock P650 primary spring. This morning I performed the exact same type of timed tests on the same asphalt road that I recently used for the DG holeshot testing, except this time I had a stock P700 primary spring installed on my P650. Just as I reported in my earlier DG holeshot timed test, its important to keep in mind that my P650 is nearly stock except for having an EPI black secondary spring and DG holeshot module.

FIRST IMPRESSIONS:
Upon a visual comparison, the P700 primary spring is just barely (perhaps 1mm) shorter than the P650 primary spring, and the coils on the P700 spring are wound much tighter. My "seat of my pants" impression of the P700 spring is that it provides in JUST SLIGHTLY better throttle response/acceleration, especially while riding in the mid-rpm range.


ACTUAL TIMED RESULTS:
My timed results of Tuesday's runs (with P650 primary spring) and Today's runs (with P700 primary spring) were as follows: (Note that the times posted below are the average of 3 runs each while using 4wd and the DG holeshot module)

100 ft times
P650 prim. spring.......3.23 seconds @ approx. 34 mph
P700 prim. spring.......3.25 seconds @ approx. 34 mph

300 ft times
P650 prim. spring.......6.52 seconds @ approx. 49 mph
P700 prim. spring.......6.51 seconds @ approx. 49 mph

1/2 mile runs used to measure top speed
P650 prim. spring.......59 mph
P700 prim. spring.......59 mph


CONCLUSION
My conclusion is that the stock P700 primary spring does NOT offer acceleration gains or top-end improvement over the stock P650 primary spring despite the fact that my seat of the pants impression is that the P700 spring feels slightly more responsive at the mid-rpm range.

For my next timed test, I plan to compare the P700 belt to the P650 belt. I'm now waiting for the P700 belt to arrive at my home (it has been on back order for the past 2 weeks).

NOTE: 2003 P650's HAVE 2 DIFFERENT PRIMARY CLUTCHES
I have one last comment on the above tests. I noticed on the Kaw. website that Kaw. installed 2 different Primary Clutch Assemblies into the 2003 P650s. They appear to have subtle differences between these 2 clutch assemblies, such as one uses a spacer for the primary clutch spring and the other one does not. I will tell you that my '03 P650 clutch is the one without the spacer (so I did not install a spacer when I installed the P700 primary spring). I also noticed that the P700 primary clutch assembly uses a spacer next to its primary clutch spring (I'm not sure if the P700 prim. clutch assembly is the same prim. clutch assembly as some of the 03 P650's or not). Perhaps my timed tests above would have indicated performance improvements using the P700 spring IF I had the other 2003 P650 Primary Clutch Assembly, or perhaps the results would have been impacted merely by installing the spacer. Personally, I have no idea why Kaw. made 2 different primary clutches for the 03 P650, but perhaps this is part of the reason why some folks have a "slow" one that won't exceed 60mph when stock (like my P650) and others have a "fast" one (that goes 65mph or more when stock).

 

Keep up the good work.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-cool.gif[/img]

 

MIKEYBOYESQ... Thanks for the data...the tests DWB & I did with his 650, he had removed the black secondary spring, earlier during testing & didn't reinstall it ... I'd be interested if the results would be the same with the 700 spring with stock secondary spring ??? ...WAM

Dan from our original tests got the chance to do some top speed runs with & with out the 700 Spring in his '03 Prairie, stock + 26" Mudrunners, & he recorded the same 61mph on his speedo for both runs... his top speed runs were run on pavement in 2WD, & were not measured at 1/2 mile like our 1st tests
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The newer version has a 2 angle sheave(inner fixed one) on the primary.

It works fine on an older machine,but is updated for the newer belt.(which was soon to come on the new p700.

The p700 spring(shorter) is intended to be used with the shim down in the spider you are referring to.
You will notice that it raises the spring more than just the thickness of the shim,as it sits on a taper.

The shim can be a nice tuning tool when testing springs.For instance,our new Blue primary spring engages (without the stock shim) the same as a stock v spring with the shim. But 250 rpms more when you leave the shim in place. Dont forget that you are changing full shift load as well.

 

WAM,

You beat me to it. As I was reading his info I was thinking the same thing. Hmmm. I wonder if I have the "other" clutch assy in my 03 P650 too? I had no shim that I noticed. I'll look again the next time I am in there.

Thanks for the tests MikeyB. The more we do the better we will be able to see the true picture.

I got my tach in, so I will be better able to study the clutch behavior. I noticed the P700 spring engages at about 1400rpm as mentioned in another thread.

 

Helix,
Thanx for the explanation! If I understand what you said, the spacer can be added to raise the rpms needed for initial engagement of the spring and this will also impact how the primary clutch shifts throughout the rest of the rpm range. Now that I know what effect a spacer/shim can have on a primary spring, I ordered one (for $2.51 USD) to try it out. I will use it to "tune" the stock P700 spring (or perhaps an aftermarket spring like Dalton's blue or EPI's pink whenever I get ready to upgrade).

I looked at the parts diagram more closely on the Kaw. webpage and it confirms what I said earlier about the 03 P650s having 2 different primary clutch assemblies. One assembly is part no. 49093-1027 (without spacer) and the other is part no. 49093-1074 (with a spacer). The P700 prim. clutch assy. (part no. 49093-0002) contains the exact same spacer (part no. 92026-1603) as the 03 P650 (part no. 49093-1074) clutch assembly...this is consistent with Helix's explanation above.

As I see it, the P700 prim. assy. and the 03 P650 (part no. 49093-1074) are almost identical, except that the P700 assy. has the (wider) P700 belt and the (shorter, more tightly coiled) P700 spring...otherwise it looks very similar. However, the other 03 P650 (part no.49093-1027) is different yet because it also doesn't have a spacer.


PS - Just found out my P700 belt is still on backorder for at least until Aug 31st...bummer [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-mad.gif[/img]