Ultimate Ignition Revisited
#11
09-22-2003, 10:07 AM
#12
09-22-2003, 02:09 PM
Ultimate Ignition Revisited
Hi Alltoys
After installing the reluctor wheel and sensor did you put a cover over the wheel or is it out in the open. I am worried about contamination on the wheel as well as water getting past the crank seal. Thanks again for the help. I would like to go with the HPX system but I want OEM reliablity.
After installing the reluctor wheel and sensor did you put a cover over the wheel or is it out in the open. I am worried about contamination on the wheel as well as water getting past the crank seal. Thanks again for the help. I would like to go with the HPX system but I want OEM reliablity.
#13
09-22-2003, 10:28 PM
Ultimate Ignition Revisited
Hi Alltoys
I dont know much about what exactly we need here I work for ford in there warranty division and one of the guys I work with is an ex Isuzu engineer I emailed him this whole post today to see what he thought about it and all he emailed me back was to do a google search on "vortex performance ignition" and said that should be what you are looking for.
So I did just to see what it was
alot about laptop programable cdi's from this company and others
Maybe this will help
sorry if you have seen this before
Thanks Doc.
I dont know much about what exactly we need here I work for ford in there warranty division and one of the guys I work with is an ex Isuzu engineer I emailed him this whole post today to see what he thought about it and all he emailed me back was to do a google search on "vortex performance ignition" and said that should be what you are looking for.
So I did just to see what it was
alot about laptop programable cdi's from this company and others
Maybe this will help
sorry if you have seen this before
Thanks Doc.
#14
09-23-2003, 10:56 AM
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Ultimate Ignition Revisited
Prairie633,
Nope not out there yet maybe the unlimiter will help but it is limited.
Slc,
If you do a search on the web for Boyer Bransden there are a number of dealers in the US if you can not get satisfaction PM me I will help put you on the right track. A stator wheel is solid mounted wheel that houses the pickups they do not rotate only the reluctor wheel rotates with the crank. Reluctor wheel has a portrusion sticking out from the round piece of steel wheel about 3mm the width of the portrusion determines the amount of timeing advance to be used. Depending on the size of circle you cut will effect the width of portrusion to get 32* the pick up registers the start of the portrusion and the end of the portrusion then the rpm dictates how much timeing is used to run the motor just as the cdi. To run any of these ignitions you will have to pull the wires from the cdi to the coils as the cdi still controls other functions that are needed to operate your machine. I have drawings which are better than pictures it gives measures and more precise data. For the V Force a spacer will have to be made to fit between the crank cover and the flywheel housing as the pickups are rather large but it will work. Only the cover has to be removed and the crank bolt on the end of the crank there is a keyway that was used to mount the pull start from the 650 that is the place where you can install the reluctor wheel with key way to keep everything in spec. The brain box for the Boyer is a little smaller than a pack of 25 smokes and completely sealed there are 2 as this system is for a single cylinder just times 2 adapted for the Kawi.
Needmorespeed,
Contamination is a valid concern I have had mine through competition mudd bogging with no ill effects I was aprehensive at first as I thought the seal would not be good enough. I used this on the 650 behind the pull start housing once the handle was removed blocked off then the wires up through a rubber grommet worked well. I also used tub and tile silicone on the mounting surface it will keep out the moisture plus it will come off easy when you wish to remove it. I have used this silicone many times for installing backing plates on differentials on cars trucks for the most adverse weather conditions around. If it can withstand a Canadian winter it will work for the Kawi. As for relialbility HPX has been around for some time plus they are US centred so I would think they would stand behind there system to the fullest they do have excellent support this is probably the main reason I went with them. They also have a Tech 3 system that combines EFI totaly tuneable a all in one system but very pricey pretty much on the same lines of the Haltech system but Haltech is in Ausstralia pretty with no main dealers in the US or Canada for that matter. They also use a light pickup and if there is any dust or contamination it could screw things up it is probably not this way but if you spend a 2000 US or more you want to make sure it works first time and 10 years down the road just my thoughts.
Doctor1,
Since I have invested a couple of pretty pennys on these systems they seem to work for me so far I did not know of Vortex or I would have taken a look see. I tried many aftermarket quad cdi companys and they would not tackle the Kawi as it was a tough nut to crack hence the quest to find a decent ignition. The problem at least on the Prairie is the cdi controls so much stuff the dedicated chip is very small but to replace it with off the counter hardware would produce a cdi 5 times as large. A little hard to stick under the seat LOL. Dyno tech has other cdi's that are totaly tuneable even they will not try to produce a cdi for a utility quad hopefully in the future they jump on the band wagon for the V Force.
Nope not out there yet maybe the unlimiter will help but it is limited.
Slc,
If you do a search on the web for Boyer Bransden there are a number of dealers in the US if you can not get satisfaction PM me I will help put you on the right track. A stator wheel is solid mounted wheel that houses the pickups they do not rotate only the reluctor wheel rotates with the crank. Reluctor wheel has a portrusion sticking out from the round piece of steel wheel about 3mm the width of the portrusion determines the amount of timeing advance to be used. Depending on the size of circle you cut will effect the width of portrusion to get 32* the pick up registers the start of the portrusion and the end of the portrusion then the rpm dictates how much timeing is used to run the motor just as the cdi. To run any of these ignitions you will have to pull the wires from the cdi to the coils as the cdi still controls other functions that are needed to operate your machine. I have drawings which are better than pictures it gives measures and more precise data. For the V Force a spacer will have to be made to fit between the crank cover and the flywheel housing as the pickups are rather large but it will work. Only the cover has to be removed and the crank bolt on the end of the crank there is a keyway that was used to mount the pull start from the 650 that is the place where you can install the reluctor wheel with key way to keep everything in spec. The brain box for the Boyer is a little smaller than a pack of 25 smokes and completely sealed there are 2 as this system is for a single cylinder just times 2 adapted for the Kawi.
Needmorespeed,
Contamination is a valid concern I have had mine through competition mudd bogging with no ill effects I was aprehensive at first as I thought the seal would not be good enough. I used this on the 650 behind the pull start housing once the handle was removed blocked off then the wires up through a rubber grommet worked well. I also used tub and tile silicone on the mounting surface it will keep out the moisture plus it will come off easy when you wish to remove it. I have used this silicone many times for installing backing plates on differentials on cars trucks for the most adverse weather conditions around. If it can withstand a Canadian winter it will work for the Kawi. As for relialbility HPX has been around for some time plus they are US centred so I would think they would stand behind there system to the fullest they do have excellent support this is probably the main reason I went with them. They also have a Tech 3 system that combines EFI totaly tuneable a all in one system but very pricey pretty much on the same lines of the Haltech system but Haltech is in Ausstralia pretty with no main dealers in the US or Canada for that matter. They also use a light pickup and if there is any dust or contamination it could screw things up it is probably not this way but if you spend a 2000 US or more you want to make sure it works first time and 10 years down the road just my thoughts.
Doctor1,
Since I have invested a couple of pretty pennys on these systems they seem to work for me so far I did not know of Vortex or I would have taken a look see. I tried many aftermarket quad cdi companys and they would not tackle the Kawi as it was a tough nut to crack hence the quest to find a decent ignition. The problem at least on the Prairie is the cdi controls so much stuff the dedicated chip is very small but to replace it with off the counter hardware would produce a cdi 5 times as large. A little hard to stick under the seat LOL. Dyno tech has other cdi's that are totaly tuneable even they will not try to produce a cdi for a utility quad hopefully in the future they jump on the band wagon for the V Force.
#15
09-23-2003, 11:08 AM
Ultimate Ignition Revisited
Isn't that an oxymoron? A limited unlimiter? [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]
Alltoys,
What else feeds off of the engine RPM for CDI controls? The 2WD/4WD and KEBC circuits run off of the speed sensor AFAIK. Maybe the KEBC takes rpm into consideration also? What else is there?
Why can't we leave the CDI intact and isolate the pickup coil and the ignition coils from the CDI? Just insert another ignition module in its place and let the CDI keep doing the rest.
Alltoys,
What else feeds off of the engine RPM for CDI controls? The 2WD/4WD and KEBC circuits run off of the speed sensor AFAIK. Maybe the KEBC takes rpm into consideration also? What else is there?
Why can't we leave the CDI intact and isolate the pickup coil and the ignition coils from the CDI? Just insert another ignition module in its place and let the CDI keep doing the rest.
#16
09-23-2003, 11:40 AM
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DWB,
The unlimiter only adds to the timeing advance but does not add to the rev limiter so it is still limited. The only way anyone can remove the rev limiter is to break into the cdi and physically modify the rev limiter or replace the ignition with a different one. The cdi also operates the fuel pump, over tilt module plus other stuff you have mentioned and a few more. Yes you can separate the cdi from the other ignition I explained this by disconnecting the wires from the cdi to the OEM coils with no apparent harm to the cdi. It is also possible to eliminate the cdi all together by installing a solenoid for the 4x4, a straight switch for the fuel pump and so on. Only going this route will take away from any warranty you may have. 90% of the wireing, switches and so on are not really needed after a new ignition is installed you will have to determine how to operate the 4x4 system, fuel pump, and dash as it will not work when the speed censor disabled. It is possible to put the quad to basic form and add manually the stuff you need it is up to your ability what you wish to do.
The unlimiter only adds to the timeing advance but does not add to the rev limiter so it is still limited. The only way anyone can remove the rev limiter is to break into the cdi and physically modify the rev limiter or replace the ignition with a different one. The cdi also operates the fuel pump, over tilt module plus other stuff you have mentioned and a few more. Yes you can separate the cdi from the other ignition I explained this by disconnecting the wires from the cdi to the OEM coils with no apparent harm to the cdi. It is also possible to eliminate the cdi all together by installing a solenoid for the 4x4, a straight switch for the fuel pump and so on. Only going this route will take away from any warranty you may have. 90% of the wireing, switches and so on are not really needed after a new ignition is installed you will have to determine how to operate the 4x4 system, fuel pump, and dash as it will not work when the speed censor disabled. It is possible to put the quad to basic form and add manually the stuff you need it is up to your ability what you wish to do.
#17
10-06-2003, 05:04 PM
#18
10-07-2003, 12:05 AM
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Ultimate Ignition Revisited
RocketJoe,
The Bransden unit is a Mark III it is single unit you will need 2 units as this is adapted from a single cylinder engine or twin that fires at 180* from each other. All crank fired ignitions fire on compression and exhaust because of the 180* rotation of the crank pick up it fires every time it goes around once. You need 2 pick ups and a reluctor wheel with one timeing nodule. As the nodule passes the pick ups the ignition fires each ignition has its own wireing deagrams, coils, brain box and wireing needed to operate the ignition. A reluctor plate has to be fabbed along with a plate extension to extend the fly wheel crank bolt cover. The cover has to moved out as the pickups are about 3/4 in. deep there is little room between plate and flywheel housing. Unfortuneatly I do not have any measurements for an adapter plate, or reluctor wheel as I am working on other things at the moment I may later on when the snow flys but not for now. I can give you rough measurements of what needs to be done from there you can decide if it is the way for you. You must also know that 4 stroke tech is coming out with an ignition in the New Year for the V Force it is supposed to be a plug and play system with some minor program additions. It might be worth a wait, this system may be more up your alley, if not then I will send you more detailed information on the Boyer system.
The Bransden unit is a Mark III it is single unit you will need 2 units as this is adapted from a single cylinder engine or twin that fires at 180* from each other. All crank fired ignitions fire on compression and exhaust because of the 180* rotation of the crank pick up it fires every time it goes around once. You need 2 pick ups and a reluctor wheel with one timeing nodule. As the nodule passes the pick ups the ignition fires each ignition has its own wireing deagrams, coils, brain box and wireing needed to operate the ignition. A reluctor plate has to be fabbed along with a plate extension to extend the fly wheel crank bolt cover. The cover has to moved out as the pickups are about 3/4 in. deep there is little room between plate and flywheel housing. Unfortuneatly I do not have any measurements for an adapter plate, or reluctor wheel as I am working on other things at the moment I may later on when the snow flys but not for now. I can give you rough measurements of what needs to be done from there you can decide if it is the way for you. You must also know that 4 stroke tech is coming out with an ignition in the New Year for the V Force it is supposed to be a plug and play system with some minor program additions. It might be worth a wait, this system may be more up your alley, if not then I will send you more detailed information on the Boyer system.
#19
10-07-2003, 12:14 PM
Ultimate Ignition Revisited
Alltoys,
The adapter plate should be no problem. The reluctor wheel and wiring is going to be the hard part for me, but I think I'll give it a shot. I would like to get this to work because the Bransden Boyer Ignition sounds very reliable. Should I send you my email address?
RJ
The adapter plate should be no problem. The reluctor wheel and wiring is going to be the hard part for me, but I think I'll give it a shot. I would like to get this to work because the Bransden Boyer Ignition sounds very reliable. Should I send you my email address?
RJ