hi how are ya my name is sean , i live in utah i purchased a Vforce about 3 months ago and i really love the bike since ive purchased it i have jeted it added dual exauhst dmc alien pipes , and filtered it i was wondering if you could point me in the right direction i want more !!!!!!! i know the bike has got a lot lot more to give but i dont know how to get . i have heard that bye changing the ignition and advancing the timing from 18 degrees to 32 degrees will add about 25 to 28 more horsepower it s really bugging me my buddy has a 2003 raptor and he smokes me up the hill at the dunesm, any info that you hve could you please contact me or e-mail me with info and prices thank you so much 801-726-4278/801-737-1807 first one is cell and probably best way to get ahold of me second one is home

 

Do a search on these forums for CDI and ignition. Also search for a member by the name of Alltoys, he has many good posts. There is alot of information on these forums you just need to dig it up.

The CDI and ignition are not avaiable, yet. A holeshot module is for the P650 but not the V-Force. An unlimiter will be coming out in another month or two and will be available for the P650 and the V-Force. The unlimiter will provide full timing from what is in the CDI, you won't get 32 degree timing but 28 across the RPM range, I think.

 

Sorry to burst your bubble here wolfman34, but the math simply does not add up to the claims of an extra 25 to 28 HP with just a small timing change. I honestly believe that at most, the timing will only give you a 3 to 5 hp increase if that much. Let’s use 49.1 HP at 6500 RPM on this motor. If you calculate the volumetric efficiency of this motor assuming an 9.9:1 compression ratio it gives you 97% efficiency. That is very good. If you add the extra 25 HP claim to that, you end up with a VE of 146%. It is impossible on a standard motor. To get that sort of horsepower you need NOS or a Turbo or a wizard tuner, with all kinds of new toys to the motor.

It will be possible to get 55 HP (assuming 30 (FMH) plus 25) out of the motor, but to do so you’ll have to move the power curve to about 9800 RPM, up from max power at 6500 RPM. To do so you’ll have to redo the intake system, exhaust, timing, port design and up the compression ratio. Then when you have your 55 HP, I believe you will struggle to ride trails. The reason for this is simple. The weight on the KFX 700 is their downfall. The reason why this bike delivers HP at low RPM’s is to give this bike some pulling power and a decent acceleration. To move this weight you need as much power as soon as possible with the lowest possible RPM’s. The CVT takes care of the rest and ensures that this bike is running at max power all the time and gives you a very good acceleration. If you up the HP to 55, the curve will change dramatically. Instead of a nice smooth curve, you’ll get a spiked power curve. Slowly building from low RPM and rising towards a peak at about 9800. Basically inverting the power output. With the new power curve you will struggle to have the same HP and torque at low RPM, as what you have with the stock motor. This might have a negative effect on the CVT and the way it operates. You might have to do some work on the CVT to adapt to the new curve and make it gear accordingly. Without some work on the CVT you’ll struggle to do nice easy pull away and do tricky trails. If you want to build a drag bike, then the extra HP will be useful.

There is always a positive and negative side to adding power. The more power you add, the higher the RPM’s will go if you keep the same capacity. The only other way to increase power and keep the curve the same is by increasing engine capacity.

 

Freez:

Its a proven fact advancing the timing on the V-Force or Praire helps huge amounts. You must first understand the timing is retarded less and less as it builds up power but it never reaches its true potential. If we increased the timing across the entire RPM range we would have more power everywhere and the motor runs cooler. Do a search for posts about the Ultimate Ignition or Alltoys. Read about it all and you maybe surprised that this motor is a true sleeper. It is so detuned just so they will not get their *** sued, all manufacturers do this but it seems Kawasaki does it the most. They made this motor way to good, its the best ATV motor out today.

 

I agree with you that manufacturers detune the motors. But I still cannot believe you can add 25 HP plus to the motor by changing the timing. Here is why. All engines can be measured by their volumetric efficiency. Taking Kawasaki's claimed 49.1 HP @ 6500 RPM, using a compression ration of 9.9:1 and it gives you a VE reading of 97%. This already is better than your average car and is on par (better) than the VE of a Kawasaki superbike. Now if you add the claimed 25HP increase it delivers a VE value of 146%. This is impossible with the motors setup, any tuner or engineer will tell you that. To get those sort of results on the motor you’ll have to redo the complete intake and exhaust system, plus the compression ration and maybe even add a turbo or NOS to the mix. Doing all these nice mods on a twin is not easy. One needs exhaust and intake pipes of the same length and the way the exhaust currently works on the bike makes it very unlikely. One will have to do some very special pluming to get this right.

But ok. One can argue that it makes this claimed 74.1 HP (49.1 + 25) at higher RPM ranges. If one keeps the VE value the same (keep in mind that only timing is changed here, the rest of the motor stays the same) you’ll have to rev to 9800 RPM to achieve this 74.1HP. Now to make it even worse, people that know how this works will tell you that VE actually decrease as RPM's goes up. The higher the RPM's the more air and exhaust gases it needs to flow and the more restrictive the standard intake and exhaust systems gets. This is debatable, but a quick stab at this tells me this bike needs to rev to 11000 RPM or even higher to make that sort of power. Now this brings me to another point. To do 11000 RPM on a stock motor is also a bit unlikely. You have two 350 CC pistons. They are big in comparison to other cylinder in motors doing more than 11000 RPM. One will also need special reinforced pistons to handle those RPM's, plus make sure everything is balanced. Again you’ll need a very special engineer to do it on a two cylinder motor. Are these special race pistons a standard on this quad? Taking the Kawasaki ZX-12R using 300 CC pistons is close to redlining at 11000 RPM's and only manages to make max HP at 10000 RPM. You are telling me that a twin cylinder 350CC piston quad motor can do better?

They must be using space aged technology on this motor, as it seems to defy all laws of physics and motor engineering.

Sorry to be so plunt, I am not trying to pick a fight here, but the math does not add up. Someone is not giving the true values and sucking some big numbers out of the sky.

 

Thats all beyond me...I think a talk with Alltoys would be really good. You two seem to be in the same knowledge league....lol.

 

If you like i can send you an excel spreadsheet with all the formulas to show you what you need to work out VE.

 

No thanks, but maybe post it on the forums so others can see?

 

I'd be interested in the spreed sheet, if your willing.

smith@ainop.com

Thanks
Rick

 

I would be happy to see that sheet. I am heading over to Alltoys later this week. I look forward to getting this all explained down on my level[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]