Mickey,
Do you have a Vortex cdi for the Prairie yet? I would think that with your monster motor there would not be much difference on the bottom end between the Holeshot and the Dyna cdi. The one you have has 31* of timing where as the later ones will have a higher timing map which does help. Over-all advantage of having more timing on an incline will have a result of a manageable torque curve especially for racing. Like you say most woods riding is around the 3000 - 5500 range at least if the torque curve maxs out at 4000 rpm there is a full range. I found with a module the OEM cdi uses the speed input to justify the timing it is at during this deciding factor it takes time although minimal but it still takes time. Now with the Dyna system even the Vortex when it comes out has a map which it will follow without having to rethink itself. The final result is if you can keep the OEM cdi with module below 6200 rpm but higher than 5000 rpm it will not have to rethink itself. On the other hand the new cdi will have a faster ramp, will not have as much torque off the start but will have more controllable torque producing more torque earlier by 1000 rpm. Also this cdi will not fall off after 6200 rpm like the OEM system.

I find I do not need the heavy torque off the immediate bottom all it does make it spin tires. I want the hard hitting torque just after take off around the 1500 - 2000 range especially hit hard at 3000 rpm. I have my machine set so it raises the tires off the ground to about 6inchs and will stay there for 100 feet not having to worry about backing off the throttle and flipping it over. These are the things that I have found playing around with timing curves and ignitions on stock and blown engines, just my 2 cents.

One day I would like to put on your machine my ignition along with my clutching. Just to see what it would do I wonder what it would produce at 9500 rpm?

 

I only have the Dyna and when I unhooked the DG it killed the bottom end. This 785 also has the 4* key in it. The Dyna did pull harder up the hill and gave it more top end but will it even give this much to a stocker?

 

Mickey,
That will be the real test on a stocker so far I have 2 feet of snow not able to do much testing. Later on I would like to get one of your 800 kits to build a mud racer should be fun!!!!! I like your truthfullness Mickey have fun in your up and coming races!!!!!

 

I would like to see a comparison between the Holeshot + key and the cdi on a completely stock machine, to see if the cdi gains are worth going from $120 to $250 or so? Maybe the 31+4 degrees is too much. I was told that 32-33 degrees gained about .8 secs from 10-55 MPH, while 36 degrees lost a full second for the same 10-55 MPH run?

 

I am anxious to see a test between the new CDI and a module w/key as well. I have a key for mine along with the module but don't want to install it if the CDI is going to be better. Everybody throwing the numbers around but, with Mickey saying there was not much difference with the DYNA CDI it has me thinking. Most of the riding that I do is tight trails and mud with very limited top speed runs. Before I shell out the money for a new CDI I would like to see comparisons. The way I understand how a key works and a module I can't see how the CDI could be much better if at all.
Stock timing 28*+key = somewhere between 32 and 34* unless the CDI limits total timing to 28* somehow. I know it ramps up slowly and killls the top with timing retard but I am not worried about top end and the module ramps up the timing fairly quick maybe faster than the new CDI. If this is the case: faster ramp up to maximum useable timing, 4 to 6* key, total timing not restricted by CDI to 28*----wouldn't the module and the key be the way to go, except for you guys that love 80mph and have a bike that can reach the new rev limit???????

Any thoughts and explanations would be appreciated.

 

I don't believe the CDI will give you much more top end, maybe a few mph to get you to 70 or a little higher. But I think the big difference is how fast it will get you there. From 0-50, it will be some different, but don't know that it will be that much, according to Mickey Dunlap. I think where most people will notice it is from 50 to top speed. On mine, once it hits 50, I can feel the acceleration decreasing and it takes a little bit to get to the top end which is between 62 and 65 mph, depending on which day it is. But I'm assuming that with the new CDI, I'll have hard acceleration up to the top end. That will only probably help me if I wanted to drag race.

 

There was a post earlier from PW where he had made a run with stock 650 against the P700 he was racing at the Texas 6 hour run. The P650 had the Dyna cdi and his had the key and a module, the 650 beat his by 3 bike lengths in 300 feet. Vica Versa when the cdi and module was switched the P700 then became the victor. This cdi that both PW and Mickey tested was the same it was a preproduction module that had 31* and start up ramp of 1500 rpm the new ones that will be for sale next month have 33* of timing and start up ramp of 1100 rpm to 4000 rpm. The OEM cdi has full ramp at 5000 rpm and retards at 6200. Also it has been discussed at length the OEM cdi takes a breaf moment to remap itself with the module. It is in its programming the new cdi does not have to rethink itself it already is there no need for the module. One more thing, a 4* or 6* key will put the timing over the top this will produce detonation for sure on the new production cdi. If you stick with the OEM cdi and module you will be left behind.

 

Alltoys is correct, I ran the slightly modified 700P with the test CDI against the bone stock 03 650P. The only correction I need to make is that the 700P engine was all stock, the flywheel key was stock also. The 700P with the CDI would walk away from the stock 650 like it was standing still! Then just for kicks we decided to run the CDI on the 650 and race again. The 700P, now with the modual hooked up, was left behind by the 650 by at least 3 quad lengths. I can say that when I first ran the 700P with the new CDI I could tell there was more kick there but until we ran it against the stock machine, I didn't realize just how much more it gained. Mickey ran the CDI on my 785P that he has there and you know what he said.
All I know is that it did make a big difference on the two Prairies we were playing with but I too would like to run with a 6 degree key and a modual against the 33 degree CDI. The thing is tho, you may get an equal or better holeshot with the modual and a key but you will lose it when the stock CDI drops your timing, but then again, how often do you get to open that thing up wide open through the woods at 70mph!!! It's a tough one and the debates will go on forever even after the CDI's are out. I really like the idea of raising the rev limit, not so much for the stock machines but more so for my FST big bore Prairie, that rev limiter kills it toooooo soooonnn!!!!!

 

We need a programable one. we could start out at 28....then map to 33 @ 1500 rpm's

debate over.

 

there that's fixed !!!!