A lot of people seem to lose sight of the fact that these companies are in business to make money. They are always looking for ways to catch the consumers eye and pry open his wallet. Thats how it works. All the new sports quads are great. But the pure sports/racing segment is not the biggest percentage of the atv market and there are limited amounts of monies to be had there. If you were a manufacturer, would you aim at a market that is small and competitive, or would you try to find a new niche that is largely untouched? Not to mention the fact that Kawi will soon bring out the 400 and a new hyper performance machine would take away from the sales of that as well. I think any new atv is a boost to our sport. New concept machines are even better. I also have to laugh at those who are so worried that the shaft will rob power. It will probably lose 3% more power than what a new chain will lose. Neither methods of power transport are totally perfect. A dirty, improperly lubed chain will probably lose as much power (or more) than a shaft takes away. A grimy mud covered shaft drive will not lose any power (but yes, it does add weight). When you are starting out with a powerplant that puts out a huge amount of power, a small percentage of power loss is no big deal. You also figure Kawi wants to keep production costs down so it is a lot easier to take the whole final drive unit and keep it unchanged. Will the 700 be a great atv? NOBODY KNOWS! We can only speculate and argue and hope.

 

An automatic CVT tranny. What a heap.

As a consumer who owned a Polaris Xplorer, and a Scrambler, I can tell you I am laughing at the market research guys at Kawazuki. Sure a CVT accelerates better. Sure you don't have to change gears. I can tell you the big difference between a manual clutch driven machine and a CVT.... throttle response. You are ripping through the woods or a track, and you see a pothole, or branch which you need to 'blip' over. Good luck on a CVT.

If all you have ridden is an automatic tranny, you have no perspective. You need to ride a clutch driven manual sport machine to understand what you are missing in terms of control.

And what is with the weight? It's not a sport machine, it's a Polaris 400L sport!

The z400 is a very good machine and they targeted it perfectly. (It could have been a bit bigger, but they already had most of the engine parts. Good to see them in the sport market again).

But the direction on this new machine is a real head scratcher....

RM

 

Maybe you need to apply for a job with them then. Im sure it will be a dud with the public and wont sell. LOL They are out to make money, not try to please everyone.

 

It appears we have one blinded by Polaris' weak CVTs of old.

Just like the T-ReX 300 guys that look at our water cooled autos and **** their head like a confused dog and harp about it being too much to tear up, however they are the same ones that hunt holes for us to swim in and swear that no other machine can outpull ours.

You know what I'm talking about KISSSOFDEATH.

 

LOL oh yeah I know what you are talking about. Hey, we are planning a big ride this weekend are you up for it?

 

Oh yeah!!! And Tim, the big Dismal/WV ride starts at 9 on Sat, supposed to last until really late. I've even seen an announcement for it on the net.

 

rennymn, I have to assume by your post that you have never ridden a 650 Prairie. If you had, I think you would agree that there is virtually no lag time when you hit the throttle. It is NOT the same as any other CVT quad that I have ridden. Please try one and then let us know your honest opinion of its throttle response.

 

rennym,

Well, you sure haven't had a roller clutch on either Polaris machine that you owned. The roller secondary clutch makes up shifting and back shifting IDENTICAL to a gear driven machine. The only lag you may feel is when you start out. If you have a clutch kit, you may need to rev it a little more to get it going. Whoopie!

In this months ATV Action, they did a test in the sand on a modified 2x4 Prairie. They were impressed, but didn't know if Kawasaki would ever come out with a sport machine that would use this motor. Well, they are and have come out with just that machine. I'm sure that 6 months ago (when the article was printed) they had no clue if there was ever going to be a V-Twin sport machine. They loved the machine, and even didn't carp on the Mac Struts on the front end. Well if they liked the Prairie, they'll love the V-force!

 

I will say this when running down a trail and you see a tree across it where a manule quad can use the clutch to build revs and lift the front an auto can not. However with a tight belt systemthe auto is always in the correct gear, this has plusses and minusses as well wheell spin in slick situations comes to mind. The thing is for 90% of the riders out there an auto quad is quicker! It is easier to ride and lets face it if a beginer burns a belt he is out 40 bucks or so let a beginner burn a clutch that is only 150 if he did not hurt the basket then you are looking at 450 or so.
Kaw is after market share, Polaris became the second largest quad peddeler by selling auto quads only, that means auto's are what the public wants.

Now for me I prefer manual but I ride w/ my kids a lot and on a 400ex it is always a pain. I am in 2nd and it is to low so I am revving to the moon so I shift the I start lugging, the whole time I am riding the clutch and having less fun. So for many riders like me this would be the ultimate quad one that can go slow when w/ the kids and then open up and rip when not. I think KAW made a smart move here, Would I like to see a 5 speed man? Heck yes! Would it sell as many units? Probably not.

 

Chero,

I remember when I first joined the board, and you and I had Polaris machines. I know you spent a great deal of time making yours work for you.

You're right. I haven't ridden a roller clutch. And I do expect there to be a major difference than the standard spring/weight type clutches. I respect your opinion, as someone who has really taken their machine to the 'limit'. I bought mine with the motor modded but didn't have a roller clutch.

But do you feel that the 'sport' machine that Kawi is going to bring out will have that type of response? I wouldn't expect a roller clutch on the factory machine. Why didn't Kawi learn from Polaris when Polaris switched their new sport machine to a manual clutch? I have yet to ride a Predator, but from the magazines, they are hyping it up pretty good. Should be great for the industry.

jscyoung,

I haven't ripped around on a Prarie 650. I did ride a Griz for a bit and I can say I liked the Griz auto tranny feel much better than the stock Polaris. But other than what Chero suggested with the roller clutch, there is a lag time for the CVT clutch to respond to the speed of the vehicle and the RPM of the motor.

So you're right as well. I haven't ridden a Prarie. But I have owned CVT's (2 of them), an LT250R, 400EX and Raptor. And I can tell you as a 'sport' rider, and a consumer, the CVT tranny in the 700 doesn't interest me. I am not brand loyal to one manufacturer, I just ride the machine I like. So I consider myself a middle of the road consumer who is an intermediate to advanced rider.

And I will use Polaris as an example again. You watch how that Predator sells compared to the Scrambler 2x4. I bet it outsells it 2 to 1 (if they get the supply chain cranked up). Sport riders want sport machines. Chero is a special dude, who spent a lot of time, research and detail to get his machine to do what he wants. I bet he smokes a ton of riders out there. But he will probably admit he is a bit of a fanatic, and enjoys the fact that he has a very original machine.

The type of market I see the 700 hitting is those guys who haven't ridden a manual machine, or the guy who walks into his dealer and sees one on the showroom floor or brochure as the biggest one out there. If they seek advice from true sport riders, I think the auto tranny will weigh heavily on their decision. I bought my Scrambler so that my wife could ride it as well. But she rode my 400ex just fine after I taught her, and she prefers the 400ex.

I would be drooling over the machine if it was a manual tranny. The torque on that puppy would pull some very cool wheelies, and I love a huge thumper.

So you ask me to ride a Prarie 650 and then give an opinion. So I ask you to do the same. From what I can tell, you have a Prarie 400. Ride a 400ex, z400/kvx400, Raptor or Banshee, and share your findings.

I will share mine, when I get the opportunity,

RM