Actually, I was trying to be overly sarcastic. You're right, it is childish. But funny.


Public land here too. I said it was environmental factors. I was disagreeing with the main push being from ranchers and farmers. Tresspassing and cut fences come from just as many illegal hunters on foot and people in 4x4's as atvs and motorcycles.

People have tried to get the media to back us. It does not work. Have you ever wondered why atvs were singled out from these dirt bikes and 4x4's? Trust me, tree-huggers are barking about those too but the media is not backing them. Why? Because someone pointed their finger at an atv and said it's dangerous. Boom! You have a story. You have ratings. You have media support and the opposition rides it's coattails.

We started compromising in the 80's. They took away our 3-wheelers anyway. I'm not compromising anymore. I'm not justifying what I love. I'm tired of watching my freedoms get flushed down the pot. They can pry my atv out of my cold dead fingers. Sorry if you disagree.

 

I bet my area is pretty average when it comes to the behavior of people in rural America.

We have problems with hunters shooting at horses, hunters breaking into camps, ATV's riding thru pastures, snowmobiles riding thru pasture, people driving like idiots and totaling their cars, people getting drunk and driving like idiots totaling their cars, city people coming into the area and acting like they own the place with ATV's Snowmobiles and Guns, and punk kids who don't respect anyone.

All those problems cause damage. Several of them could result in injury or worse. Hunting causes deaths in the area every year. ATV's cause deaths every year. Car's cause more deaths than ATV's, Hunting and Snowmobiles combined.

As for the cost. Yes, threoretically someone not wearing a helmet could cost society money but so could crossing the street or driving to work. It's every bit as wrong to say we should let our personal freedoms go in this case as it is to say cops can beat criminals if it helps them solve the case! It's not justified to throw ideals out the window to save some lives or put a criminal away.

I realise in both cases it's apealing to "let it slide". In reality there are probably times when you have to (stopping terrorist attacks on innocents come to mind) but even this is debatable. Wearing your seatbelt is not even close to that important.


I find it funny that I used to ride around in the back of my parents truck when I was a kid(it was a good place to take a nap). Kids did it all the time. Nobody said anything bad about it. Today if you let a kid ride around like that the parents would probably be thrown in jail or severely fined. Were my parents negligent? I used to ride around on my bike without a helmet. Every kid did the same. Now it's illegal around here for a kid to ride without a helmet. My dad back in the 60's rode his Harley without a helmet. Almost everybody did. Now you wear one or get hauled off to jail.

There is a fear mentality that is prevalent in America these days. The news tells us to worry about everything from murderers to unsafe child seats. This fear mentality mixed with lawyers raping bussiness is what is driving the new regulations. Yes it's safer to wear a helmet or a seatbelt but don't try to turn that into a deathwish. Millions upon millions of people drove without seatbelts for decades and were fine. Same with helmets.

If you want to talk about the cost, look at the cost of drinking in America. Drunk driving, liver disease and alchohol poisoning will kill more in the next 6 months than ATV's have since their inception. Why is drinking legal? Because americans realized that personal freedoms are worth more than the small percentages of lives lost.

 

raptorlegs, I kinda figured you were being sarcastic, I was trying inject a little humor too.

I figured it was the lawyers that ultimately got 3-wheelers banned, with their unlimited lawsuits, and the inherent danger of something on 3 wheels being so tippy. Compared to quads, i think 3 wheelers are dangerous, but man, they sure do make you a better rider when you get on a quad.

ya, our private land probably gets damaged more by people other than atvers. Living in a fungus infested rain forest, we have magic mushrooms growing wild. the pickers do a lot of damage. a buddy of mine had a rural property with 20 acres and horses.purely hobby farm. some mushroom pickers opened his horse gate a few different times, and left it that way. horses got out a few times. One time his horse hit a lady in a Chevette and she was rendered a quadrapalegic. he got sued. didn't have enough insurance $$ to cover the damages awarded to her. had to sell one of his businesses. 100% true story. I guess the courts figured if he knew pickers went in there, he shoulda padlocked gate. talk about being held responsible for someone else's actions!!

It reminds me of a saying that is really pertinent to what we're all debating here: 'Bad injuries make for bad law'.
In other words, when a court or jury is staring at a wheelchair bound person drooling, it really doesn't matter what that person did to self-inflict the trauma, they're going to find someone else responsible cuz the mentality is, "It's just coming from some rich insurance company anyways"... So all our sanctimonious preachings here really won't change the legal end whatsoever.

Oh, and i don't disagree with your last statement either, I actually like it. I hope they have to clutch my quad from my cold, dead carcass aswell, cuz I ain't giving it up voluntarily or by any decree from gov't.

Glimp, you mentioned alcohol problems.. i think alcohol producers have a pretty powerful lobby. You never mentioned tobacco, but they're the same. Pick your poison I guess. So hey, where's our powerful lobby from the power sport manufacturers??....c'mon boys, step up to the plate and do something for us pawns that make you rich buying your products!

last thing, Glimp mentioned riding in truck box. I always remember my brothers and me riding in the overhang of the truck camper with our 3 pathetic faces glued against the window as we layed stretched out on our bellies on the bed. Imagine a head-on collision, or severe stop... dad would have seen his 3 kids ejected from above onto the ground below as he drove over us. Eeewwww. I know we had a lot of freedoms, but some of the laws really do protect us, even if the odds of the occurence are remote at best.

 

R-legs, talk about watching it happen for 20 years, heck man, I lived it... been there, done that... I do find it interesting that the stuff we are complaining about all happened when we were the young punks.. so this is nothing new.... with age comes wisdom I guess... My worst fear of becoming my parents has come true... and it is my generation that is taking actions to save the world from itself...

Someone said the media is to blame. well yeah I guess to a point... but if there were no bad stories to report, they would move on to something more interesting like terrorism in the lunch room or something. There is nothing like a kid with a gun in a school cafeteria threatening the cooks over bad food that gets people going in circles and thinking the sky is falling...

As for spelling and grammer errors.... well, the old dragginbutt has this problem with fat fingers, and they can't keep up with his thought processes, so I drop words every once in a while... and well, a spell checker would be great too.

I read stories from all over the country with the same themes. Most of them are second or third hand urban legend deals, rarely based on fact.. mostly hype and filled with stay-puffed marshmellow cream for effect. It must sell a lot of papers. I can also see that the average American will read this crap and form an opinion that is hard to break. I have recently had to have Knee surgery that was ultimately caused by an untimely crash on one of my machines. I had to deal with emergency room techs, surgeons, physical therapists, parents of kids going through the same stuff, other patients etc.... All had formed an pre-conceived opinion that ATV's were unsafe and should be banned... and they all looked me like I was some crazy old man who had been out in the sun too long. Heck even Mrs DB told me I should be acting my age... (but I managed to get her on one and now she is hooked). Anyway, my response haas always been sure ban them right after you ban boats, drinking, cars, bicycles, airplanes, motorcycles, guns, chainsaws, tractors etc. Just about all the aformentioned devices have been known to lead to deaths. The machines themselves are not to blame... then who or what is? I consider myself to be a more than competant rider, but the accident happened any way. The point is, people read garbage and will believe it without any personal knowledge before they will beleive you or me... because the stories support their pre-conceived notions of what "their" little world is supposed to be like.

You are right, I am not going to stop the punks.... and I am not going to change peoples perceptions... but I do know that cynicism will not work either... it has to start somewhere.... and education is key. I think when confronted with the facts, most people are reasonable and will listen to reason... But there are some closed minds that you couldn't open with can openner.

You say you think it is funny that some of us are willing to fight for what we see as an important issue. If not us, then who? It sure beats sitting around in front of a computer bitching that there are no places to ride when we could have done something about it. I suggest you read up on how the Hatfield/McCoy riding area in West by GOD Virginia got it's start...it took a lot of hard work, and the involvement of local and state politicians to pull it off. But now that it is open, the economic development that has occurred in the region has been remarkable. Same is true for the silver country trail system in ID, and the Paiute trail system in Utah etc.

It starts with one person with an idea, and it grows into something that even they can't imagine. I am sure they heard the voices of many cynics when they started out too...

 

I said I think it's funny that some of you guys can't undstand why the media won't do "feel good" stories on atvs.

I said trying to pass unenforceable legislation (expecially directed at adults) is ridiculous.

I said trying to meet the opposition half-way is pointless.

I said I thought both sides should be focusing on more important issues. We've ended up defending ourselves to people we will never justify our sport to. And yes, I think they have the edge with their media support.

 

Well then I guess I am glad to know that my experiences in these mattesr differ from yours. I am glad to know that there are a lot of dedicated people who stand up for the rights of others... even though their efforts are not appreciated or believed

I've seen organizations take on the Federal government (BLM) and win time and time again... I 've seen where the material used to close areas has been proven false in a court of law, and the ensuing reversal of decisions....

Do I believe the system works... most definitely! Do I agree with the decisions that are handed down... Not always. But I believe in the dedicated few that are in there fighting.

You can believe what you want... That is the great thing about this country of ours, you can state your opinion any time and place you want... It is not utopian... but we are working on it...

 

Yet more land has been blocked off than opened, not to mention the registration requirements. Yet 3-wheelers are gone and here in the near future, 2-strokes are gone too. We're going downhill, my friend.

Only a matter of time. Enjoy it while you can. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

 

You say it like getting rid of 2 strokes would be a bad thing.....

 

It is a bad thing. Especially considering the technology exists to lower emmisions.

Good article if you're interested:
www.eindiancompanies.com/pdf/comeback.pdf

 

I doubt the new 2 stroke tech. could be done cheap enough (at least now) to be put in any quad the average joe could afford. I saw a documentary on how it worked and while it's nice, it's also complex. Even if it could be done I'm not sure I want it. Just what I need, my quad (just like my car) too complicated for me to fix it.

Kinda like fuel injection. Although I think that's even more inevidable than getting rid of 2 strokes.