Well then, I guess what I am hearing is that in MN and other places, riders that are advanced or outsized for their age have options for getting permission to ride larger machines legally... and that is good news.... however that is only one half of the equation as far as I am concerned. I still have not see where anyone will address the safety association's refusal to even consider allowing an outsized child to take their course unless they fall within the guidelines for CC and age. This is a catch 22 I know.... The kids who need the course the most can't take it... and in reality, the 50cc Yamaha is the same chassis as the 80cc. The only reason I went with the 80 was that 1) the 50cc wasn't available when I purchased the 80, and 2) with his weight, he needs the extra power to ride on the hills in our back yard. Not everyone is blessed with level yards you know....and with his weight, the 50 is useless if you don't have a flat level surface.

 

This is more directed to "WHODAT".

I can understand and agree with some of what you are saying. What I can't understand is Your "Preaching to the Choir" Approach. We agree that some parents do stupid thing when it comes to their children and put them in danger by allowing them to ride machines that are just way to much for some adults to handle let alone a 6 yr. old.

The majority of the users on this from what I see are all about safety and supervision. I think that you would be doing more of a service if you would stop lecturing "the few" and find ways to help "the majority of us". I'd really like to see more URLs about "how to increase the safety on our minis" and "safe places where our kids could ride". With you being an ATV SAFETY instructor There has to be historical records that you could look into and share these with us. I think we are all on the same team here we just don't like the negative approach that you have taken with us as far as you being stuck on the theory "stick on a 3/4 year old on a 300+ quad" or your "mini as a baby sitting tool" focus.

Just my .02.
TY for reading, and to all the unamed that helped with this post...you know who you are. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img] I thank you also!

 

First off I would like to apolgise to those that may have misunderstood my remarks.. I think in reading everyone's comments, we can draw a few conclusions:
1) The guidelines developed in years past do not fit in all cases....
2) We all feel a need for parents to act responsibly and make better decisions... and take a more hands on approach to supervision and training.
3) Most of us agree that full sized machines are too big for anyone less than 16, however there are also some of us that indicate that they feel that something larger is required for kids that demonstrate the skills required, and ability to handle the machines.
4) A large percentage of us would support some formal certification process , perhaps targeted by age, for the 12 to 16 year old brackets. (Wisconsin has a model I like)


So what do we do with all this data? Stats point to injuries and deaths linked to size of the machines.. that may suggest to the manufacturers that a mid sized platform may be the answer we are seeking... Not just physical size, but engines as well. When considering a midsize dirt bike for MX use, a 125 is normally the next choice above the suped up 80's we see. Size wise, they are close to a 250, but not in power or weight. Maybe the 125 would be a good way to go, but target the 12 to 16 year old market... instead of limiting them to 90s. That would provide a reasonable next step without going into overkill mode. After all, the difference between a modified 80 and a stock race 125 is not a lot in the motor department....

Size of chassis is the other side of the coin that needs to be addressed. If you look at a stock blaster, it somewhat resembles what I envision. The wheelbase is shorter, and the whole machine is not anwhere near the size of a utility or top end sport model. I think that size parameter is near the mark....

I sure hope the big companies are out there listening... as they not only control the safety training, but they also are the ones that are capable of filling that missing link. Right now, there are no options available, and parents are forced to go to the larger machines as their children progress.

I'd also like to see something done about the tippiness issue. Yes this is a result of the ever increasing need for increased ground clearance, but I can't understand why some of the best minds in the industy can't come up with something that can help reduce this tendancy.

 

Dragginbutt,

I agree. The same size glove doesn't fit all and hence "we the folks in the field" see the gaps. Instead of hoping "big companies are out there listening... " what can we do?

Any suggestions on how "we the poeople" can bring our mini-sport to a higher level. A level with less gaps and inturn, even more "safer" fun for our next generation of riders...

.

 

What is obvious to me is the value state and national ATV and Off-Road organizations testimony has on law makers.

To participate in change I would recommend that :

1) Join and participate in both state and national organizations were you can drive a interest in the change

2) Build support for the change from Doctors, lawyers, professional associations, child safety organizations etc that would side with the proposed changes.

3) Lobby your state representatives for them to become aware of the need for change and demonstrate the support from the above efforts.

4) Be a GREAT example. Don't undermine your own project whil'st being subject to controversy. I have seen Bass fisherman loose hard to gain support in the legislature - becuase they got tagged for some violation during the process.

 

I also think that they should come up with a test dealers take before they give you an ATV.
I mean come on. Im 15 years old when i bought my ATV I was just 14 I was 5'7" and wayed about 100pounds
now how in the world did they expect me to fit on an 80cc (size required for my age) I mean the seat my kness where almost as high as the seat when I was standing next to it how the hell did they expect me to sit on it. I have to admit. Even though I am now only 15 I ride a 229cc Yamaha BearTracker. But I ride under the supervision of either my older sister ( who by the way is almost 19 my than old enough to ride and supervise) or my great grandfather or my grandfather. I also always ride with a snell approved helmet; now I don't ride with long sleeve shirt but where I ride there is nothing to hit my arm on (my great grandfather has 22 acres 4 of them are cleared)

But to conclude what I am trying to say is that not everyone should fall under the same guidelines everyone is different the parents should be taken into consideration and the child. why can't we give the parents a test before we sell them an ATV some what of an ATV questionare.

I'll reply again later I've gotta get off for now

 

Terd -

Funny - but it seems like its the choir doing all the preaching - about how the rules and regulations, industry recommendations and laws are not fair because they or thier kid is to tall, to big or to fat for a 50 or 90cc quad.

My position has remained consistent in communicating what the rules are and I have attempted to articulate the information so that everyone is informed and impowered to make the best decision for themselves. The controversy seems to come from forum members who have choosen to go outside of these parameters and they feel the need to redeem themselves for the decisions already made - or, that by argueing with me - It will make some kind difference.

Yes, I do beleive that some parents put their under age children at risk on oversized quads, without proper supervison, safety equipment and training - for their own personal entertainment. But not everyone does.

Yes - after hearing parents ask if their 3 year old can ride the 90cc atv in the house - I have a problem with it. And if a forum member is asking what ATV is appropriete for a 4 year old - my response will remain as consistant as the other messages - go buy a puppy and tricycle.

I spend a great deal of time and many Saturdays working with 12-15 year old youths so they can legally operate larger than 90cc quads.

You might want to label it preaching - but some of us are actually doing something measurable to improve the sport for youth and family participation. Some of us are meeting with senators and congressmen, county and city officials, township board members and concerned citizens to advance the opertunity for youthful atv operation while most people are sitting in the pews whining about how they shouldnt have to conform to the few rules we have now, while we are on the preface of much more stringent regulation, restriction and possibly loss of non-auto-licensed operators.

So everyone please stand for the benediction -

 

 

Spike -

Are you having some kind of mental block? I think we all agree on the safety issues and your much repeated wanting to know how to install lights on mini quads. But you cannot squash the issue because it makes you uncomfortable with the decisions you have made.

I think the matter of dissagreeing was made pretty clear with the first posts.

Anyone can recommend whatever quad they want for embryo to 100. I will continue to promote the legal and recommended age requirements. I will also continue to reply to questions, inquiries and statements made in regards to this topic.