This is where I keep scratching my head, Dragginbutt. The kid who is about this age, a parent buys him an 400lb quad and turns Junior loose in the back pasture. I can't think of a way to reach this kid. The parents aren't going to bring them to a training program and Junior isn't old enough to drive (not that he'd be caught dead with a bunch of old farts anyway). What do you do, offer to pick the kid and quad up? You think anybody would take you up on it? Sure wouldn't send my kid off with a stranger. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]

I'm open to suggestions on that one.

 

The Safety issue is wide open as far as a individuals interpretation of whats best for their child. My neighbor bought their 6 yr. old a knockoff honda 100cc, he'd never been on a quad before. Luckily he hasn't hurt himself yet. Whats worse is their 11 yr. old got a 400cc for his first quad, also no experience. They both have open face helmets, which they sometimes wear. The parents thoughts on the size issue is that they will have them for a longer period of time before they outgrow them. My son has had dirtbikes and fourwheelers since he was 6 , and has all the gear for safety. The neighbor asked my opinion before buying the quads and I told her both quads were to large for her kids and explained about the need for helmets etc. She thinks it's fun to ride with 3 kids and a dog on the fourwheeler on the street. She has no concept of safety. There's not much you can do about people that don't understand common sense, Thats why there are laws governing size. The laws are also there to try to keep dealers from selling parents that have no clue what size machine to get their kids, a machine thats to large. All we can do is try to educate the best we can , and try to learn also as we go. I've found a good tool for helping me with my boy. I went to Streetbikeworld.com , they have a pics section that shows wrecks. My boy has a better understanding now of what dad has been trying to tell him about safety, a very graffic understanding. Be safe.

 

Yeah that is a tough one.. certainly the parents probably won't cooperate. Sounds like the quad is acting as a surrogate baby sitter. I guess about all you can do in some cases is pray for them... I can't say that I wasn't in the same situation at that age too...and I survived it.. but I would never let my kids do half of the things I did when I was young. All of us kids grew up leaving the house at sun up, and not coming home until sundown. And we did just about everything you could think of... of course we usually were with a bunch of others in the same boat. But you get the picture. Even so, my older son "borrowed" my warrior on occasion and I would come home to find a new dent here, a bent bumper there.. and I would know he had been out with it. I caught him a couple of times when I came home early and his so called friends were on it. that is when I really let them all have it.. and they didn't come around any more after that. Other than the one who broke into my shed and stole the motorcycle. He pushed it over the top of a steep hill then tried to start it.. but forgot to turn on the gas and couldn't get it going. I heard it and thought it was the son sneaking out for a ride... the kid about crapped his pants when I grabbed him and dragged his butt back to the house to await the Sherriff.. He spent a few months at the local "boot camp" over that one. Any way, my point was that I disagree with the trend that kids under 12 are increasingly being shut out of the training courses depending on the state they reside in... I have stated before and will state again, it does not make sense to keep a kid who needs the program the most from taking the course just because of their age. I don't advocate him riding a machine that is obviosly too big for him though. In that case I agree with the instructors to refuse them.
About all you can do is make an offer to instruct them.. maybe make the pitch to the parents... at least then, if the kid does get hurt, you can sleep at night knowing you at least tried...

There are organizations out there called trail ambassadors that have handout material available.. You might check to see what is available in your area. Without being judgmental, it might be worth it to slip one in their mailbox...

 

Newnick, I don't know what he answer is going to be... I do think education is key to solving the problems... and this is one of the reasons I am an advocate of reform. If it were me making the call, I think a couple of items I would put into place would be something madatory for the kid and their parent to do together so both can be educated. Maybe something as simple as requiring them to view a video at the dealers that shows basic safety suggestions, and recommendations. Show them the dangers without being gory.. take maybe 15 minutes or so....

Another spin on that would be to have them complete a pre-sale workbook that re-enforces the safety video. It doesn't have to be a pass fail thing... just let them initial that they understand the risks, and know the local laws. Last time I bought a new machine, I had to initial several items that the dealer had to show that they had explained.. why not expand on this checklist?

All this is assuming that they purchase teh correct size quad for their age...

Now as for teh guidelines, I'd also like to see some changes that are based on size of the kid... maybe a minimum height, or weight for each class of quad... Age was a convenient measurement... but maybe offer the height/weight scale as an alternative measurement in conjunction with the current age limit. That would allow the outsized kid and paarent an alternative.

Lastly I would continue to promote the idea that dealers should not sell a quad that does not fit the parameters of the guidelines. I think they do a decent job now, but parents lie.. so put the onus on the lying parent. If their kid gets hurt, make them accountable.

I would also like to see the industry get away from speed and rushing to have the biggest stick.. but that isn't going to happen.. ever. And wouldn't the machines be more stable if they were wider than they are now? The 48 inch standard came about as a result of being able to fit into a pickup bed... not sure that is valid these days...

 

I'm sure there's no real answer to the dangers kids face growing up, whether its quads, toys, other kids, grown ups , seatbelts, drugs etc. I care for the kids next door and try to watch out for them as well as my own, but I'm not their parent. Once when I was 12 or 13 one of my friends parents were out of town and their Grandmother that lived with them was watching them. There was 3 boys, the oldest was my age. They decided to take their dads Suzuki 750 and a shotgun down to the local dump for a little fun. They had to take turns riding the rest of us out there one by one. I'm kinda surprised we didn't get cought , all the trips we had to make. Anyway we survived , no wrecks, nobody got shot. We had fun. Thats just one of the many things we foolishly did as kids to pass the time and all of it was fun at the time. Extremely dangerous as well. Needless to say I keep a real close I on my son, and I tell him he can talk to me about anything he wants to. So far he's doing pretty good.

 

The regulations are good for those parents who dont behave as they should but I'm not so sure they help as much as many would lead you to believe. I'm all for education but regulations dont help all that much. As an example:

Parents go out and buy their kid a 50 when the child is 6. They send him to a training course because they have to. Then the kid gets home rides with supervision for a week then the parents figure he's set and let him go around the backyard track without supervision (it happens with most parents if were honest).

This is the ideal scenario as far as I'm concerned. Remember were talking about generally bad parents. But here are a few other scenarios.

A parent goes out and buys a used 80 for his 6 year old. Teaches the kid where the brakes are, gives him a helmet and watches him for a few days then lets him ride alone on the back track while he watches the game inside.

The regulations do almost nothing. He does give his kid a helmet (probably as a result of education somewhere down the road) The same scenario happens for parents who buy quads online or lie about their childs age.

Another parent (me) goes out, buys his 6 year old a 80. Sets the screw so the kid can't go over 8 or 10 mph. Buys spacers for the wheels so the quad sits about 4 inches wider than stock. The kid wears a helmet, boots, gloves and chest protector. Teaches the kid for a hour or two a day for a week how to stop, lean and avoid accidents. We talk about going across hills and the dangers of flipping over. After a few weeks of staying within 50 feet of the kid I sit nearby keeping an eye on him every time he takes the thing out and at the very most read a book while sitting there.

Is my kid any less safe than the first two children? Of course he isnt following the guidelines. Am I a bad parent? I would argue that my child is better equiped for the experiance than even the kid on the 50 with a half day training course.

Here is my biggest problem with what everyone is saying. There is a chance that children will get hurt or , God forbid, die no matter how much training and time you put into keeping him safe just like there is for an adult on a quad. Many people here have said to hold the parents responsible. How do you do that? If I were held responsible by the regulations I would be in trouble if my kid shows up at the ER with a broken arm even tho the quad, child and terrain is as managable as possible and I've done everything within my power to keep my son safe.

There are dozens of things a child can do to get hurt or killed. Many of these things we allow them to do. Sports, riding horse, driving go-carts, riding bicycles and skateboards could all be put in the same category along with alot other things. I guess we should just ban kids from doing any of these things so they can be guarenteed a safe childhood. We should also ban crossing the street, playing in gym at school and karate class. While were at it why not put the kids in a padded room till theyre 18 and they can make their own decisions.

Accidents happen. We need to educate parents on parenting. We need to educate children on how to ride. We don't need more regulations aimed at making blanket statements that arent always based on real world scenario's.

 

I'm not so much hung up on punishment of the parents... but I would like to shift the onus in their direction, so they do not have ammunition to use in suing the manufacturers or the dealer. In other words, make the parent take responsibility for their actions. How many times do you see some news guy stick a mic in someone's face and the first words out of their mouths is "I didn't know". Well BS lady if you signed a statement acknowledging that you were told and understood the dangers.. don't blame the dealer if your kid gets hurt.

You and I are on the same page when it comes to training our kids, making them wear every piece of safety gear available, and supervising their fun. I admit, my attention may wonder from time to time, but generally I can be found in the same general vicinity, and after spending a great deal of time around motorcycles, ATV's, sprint cars, midgets etc, I have developed an ear for exactly what they are doing, and how the machine is acting just by the sounds it makes. Sounds silly, but I can tell when something is not right just by the noises, and my attention is focused immediately.

Lastly I look ath this as there being only two types of riders. those that have crashed, and those that are going to. It isn't a question of if, just when and how bad.

Do I think you are a bad parent because you bought an 80 instead of a 50 like the guidelines require... ABSOLUTELY NOT. Let's face it, for the most part, the kid is never going to get it out of first gear until they get a lot of experience under their belt.. and with the throttle stop, you can go just as slow as the 50. Although I did have to add my own tether/kill switch.. and I just added a chatterbox setup to our helmets so I can talk to him as he rides. By the way, you already know I did the same thing... Although I am now considering getting the 50 only to meet the requirements for the riding areas around here. They follow the guidelines, and he can't ride if he is on his 80. The only problem with that is the 50 is only good for flat surfaces.. and we ride in the mountains.

My other complaint is with lighting on mini's, although I understand it was a conscious decision on the part of the people writing the class specification that they NOT have lighting to keep them from riding at night. Well, let me tell you, lights on in daylight when riding in deep forest not only allow them to see a little better, but it also makes it easier for others to seem them. That is a no brainer as far as I can see.

 

I believe lem makes a hi-perf 50 that makes a good show of it against 90cc machines, cayman I think. Yes you can throttle back a 90, but its not only power its the size of it, would he honestly fit correctly on it, as far as being able to use proper body englidh ect? Be honest woth yourself, wait to move him up untill he can ride the wheels All the way off the one he already has. My 9 yr. old is average size, but has a high level of riding ability, and he doesn't want a faster quad than a 90cc. I'm not preaching it's just 6 yrs is young UNLESS the kid is talented, you have to make that call, but the slower you bring them along, the more they learn WITHOUT the bumps and bruise. That should make it more fun for the three of you not to mention the wife

 

Hey Newnick,

That's exactly what I was thinking. For a 6 year old, we will definitely get our money's worth from the 70, then when the time is right, sell it and move up to a 90 or higher. I think for now I am going to stay within the regulations (I believe a 6 year old can ride a 70) in case he gets hurt and we need to use insurance to cover an injury. A friend of mine has a 10 year old that just got seriously hurt (requiring surgery, though no permanent damage) on a 90 last week and it will be interesting to see how insurance covers it. Knowing that quads are machines that need to be respected, no matter what the size, is very important and as a parent, I have a responsibility to play it conservative rather than risky when buying one for him. That being said, different kids develop at different rates, so I can only say and do what is right for my kid.

 

Good deal, The old saying, better safe than sorry applies. I'm sure the little guy would like the 70cc and they'll both have a fourwheeler, so they can ride together. And you can hop them up if you want to.