I'll second that, QUADDUCK!!!

What are they thinking. Got to be kids.

 

I try not to get up on a soap box too often but I am in law enforcement and easily take offense to those who are ignorant.

 

ok listen guys, I'm not a kid, and I have no disrespect towards law enforecement. I have a few friends on the force myself. I never once mentioned the term "pig" in any thread. All I'm trying to say is where I come from and where I ride, there never used to be a problem, the cops didn't say boo to us riders what so ever......... that is until a multi million dollar golf course was constructed in the area and all the rich yuppies moved in. Once this happened, all of a sudden there is a huge legislation on ATV use. This is to the point where its not fun to take a nice sunday afternoon and go for a ride without being stopped for a half hour while the cops make sure yuo are "legal". What my fellow ridin buddies and I used to do for years is all of a sudden illegal........ and no one was ever told us about the "changes"...... The way we are finding out about all these new laws is with stiff fines from the boys in blue. Its pretty unfair considering that what the police used to say nothing about... you now get a $400 fine for, out of nowhere!!! There was no announcement that the laws had changed, OR that they are going to be enforced ZERO tolerance... you just get a big fine! My arguements are perfectly just, and whats takes the government one meeting to pass legislation, takes years for the ATV clubs to protest and get dropped. To a lot of us it is to much work, to much of our free time fighting the system. Quadduck, you are in law enforecement and therefor you MUST see my side of the storey. I have NEVER broken any laws pertaining to the laws I was informed about over the years, but when these laws change overnight, with no notification, ofcourse I'm going to be a bit bitter. I was almost arrested and had my bike impounded because I asked one cop a simple question about why we ATV riders havn't been informed about the law change, and why we are given such a hard time these days. I was also parked in my good friend's driveway at the time!!! I don't know what neck of the woods you police, but I'm sure that if someone asked you why, all of a sudden, you can't pull up to a gas station just off a crown land trail.. you would tell them why they can't drive the ATV up to the pumps..... rather than taking it as an ego/disrespect for the law shot and flip out, threatening and yelling to take the ATV away an get a $250 fine!!! Like I said, there are kids out there that ruin it for a lot.... but the cops should be smart enough to distinguish between the bad guys and the good guys. I'm not a kid, I don't run from the cops, and I don't break the laws that I know of but I get treated that way.......... and your threads just proved my point EXACTLY... thanks for making me look good..... officer [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

 

Snappynuts, When I read your posts, you make it seem like you are riding to the gas station on roadway that are not open to atvs. Now, Myself and Quadduck could be wrong on our assumption. I hate "assuming" because it only does two things. Make an #$% out of you and me. Now, I don't know how your laws are enacted in the great north. But, down here in the Good Ol' USofA. They have hearings that need to be open to the public. So, they are posted and there is a period in a open public forum for our imput. Down here, it does seem like things happen over night, but in reality, it doesn't. As far as you riding there for years. Well, that might be the case. But, it doesn't seem you own the property, therefore, you are trespassing unless, of course it is public property. Now, down here, for us to cite you, it needs to be posted or you have to be told to leave. Of course, if you are continually told to leave the property, you know that being on it, is illegal and therefore you know from past experiences. Now, as far as the cops doing their job, they are. I'm sure there are different divisions within the department, doing everything that you said they should be doing. It's just to sad, your legislators listened to the yuppies in your area and passed a law that pertains to your favorite riding area. Talk to your representative and see if they will entertain a middle ground? I doubt it, but try.
Also, I know when things like subdivisions, shopping centers and golf courses are built an environmental impact report needs to be done and open for public review. So, depending on what it says, I don't think the issue of gold carts making mud holes will work, unlike the argument of atvs creating mud bogs on adjoining property. These always seem to bite us in the rearend[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]

After reading this thread, the US of A doesn't look all that bad[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

 

Whoa Nellie, this one took a bad turn... and I think I incited it... sorry for that.. it wasn't the intent... Now I am no tree hugger... and I have a certain amount of hostility towards developers who take away without giving back.. but I can't say that what they are doing is wrong. And I certainly do not fault any law enforcement officer for doing their duty either... although I may not always be on the right side of that one either... But you won't hear me complain about it...

I guess the years have taught me that there is a process... to get things changed, or to protect yourself.. and it takes education and action on a lot of peoples's parts to effect change... but it can be done. What I don't agree with, is inactive individuals who will not take time to try and work within the system to effect that change. Sure it takes time... anything worth doing does.... but if someone doesn't stand up and say something, then I guess there is no room for complaint then... Frustrating.. sure it is... Do I expect that I can make a difference.. probably not.. but I tried...

Here is an example... there have been many on these threads complaining about the guidelines that have been around for years and are in our opinion outdated. They are effecting the ability of our kids now to enjoy something that we did years ago in our younger days... and we don't like it.

I have heard numerous complaints... but when asked to sit down and put thoughts in writing... I got probably ten good suggestions, and a whole lot of complaints without workable solutions. Although the complaints outnumber the solutions 4 to one, I am still in there fighting... If nothing else, it has changed quite a few of my own perceptions and opinions on the whole deal... and it has opened a lot of doors to education possibilities that I can use to expand not only my knowledgebase, but my son's as well. So even though I did not get the results I was looking for, my journey of discovery has shown some positive results.

I also started a thread that suggested that we as adults take action to ensure kids have helmets... I even went as far as making an agreement with my local dealer to give a free helmet to a kid if they can't afford it, and I'll pay for it. So far in two years I have bought 4 helmets. But more importantly, in two of the clubs I belong to, they have established a lending closet of helmets, and now I am hearing from other clubs that they are doing the same thing with good results... And I have heard from at least one person who claims their free helmet saved their life... so was it worth it? Is one person able to effect change? You be the judge... But it takes action folks... don't complain if you can't take the step...

As for losing riding areas.. it is a sign of the times. They call it progress. From what I have seen lately, it appears to me that our sport is evolving... I see the future will consist of resort like environments being established, where people come to ride ATV's being very successful. Take a look at the Hatfield McCoy trail system in West Virginia for example... or the Paiute trail system in Utah, or the Silver country in Idaho... all are examples where people like you and me started with an idea, shared that dream with others.. worked with the authorities to negotiate land use permits, establish special ordinances that are ATV friendly etc... and it took years to negotiate it all.. but look at what they have accomplished... The economic impact in West Virginia has been in the hundreds of millions of dollars that the area would not have had if it were not for the hard work of a few individuals.

It could all be repeated.. but it takes YOU to get up and take action....

 

Dragginbutt, I commend you on your hard work[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img] You've done some great things. You are correct in your analogy of what's going on and one of the ways it can be changed. But, the realization is, people find it easier to complain, then to work in a positive manner to make a difference. I created a saying in an organization I was president of "Be part of the solution, not part of the problem". Keep up the good work. But a word of warning, don't get burned out trying to get your message across. A lot of deaf ears on this subject[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]

 

Yes, the laws up here are a little strict pertaining to the vehical act in general, not just ATVs. Our provincial government is rather poor, and "needs the money". Law enforcement have a zero tolerance attitude here, which translates into no warnings, just tickets....... even when you don't even know the laws because its so difficult to find out. I have written the court asking for a copy of even just the ATV laws, and I havn't received anything as of yet. Emails go un answered........ to me and everyone else, it looks like they don't want you to know, or don't care if you do or don't, just as long as there is enough money to pay the salaries. I found the neighbouring provinces ATV act in 10 minutes on the internet. Ours, no where to be found. We just have it bad up here, its as simple, yet at the same time as difficult as that! Come on up sometime.... you'll see [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

 

Dragginbutt you are right and I have tryed recently to organize my group and all they want is to enjoy the fruits of someone elses labor. This won't stop me though, I am going to keep trying.

 

Thanks for the encouragement guys.. I don't know if it is the ornery part of me, or the stubborn part...that keeps me fighting... I'll leave that up to my wife to decide... but all it takes is a word of encouragement once in a while to keep me going. Maybe it is because I live and work in DC, and see how the work of just a few individuals CAN make a difference.

I can't really comment on the Canada deal other than ask one simple question... are the local authorities elected officials? It seems to me that is a starting point. Nothing like the threat of getting thrown out on your ear gets a person's attention any quicker. Especially if you join your voice to a group of like minded individuals... Ever try a petition with signatures of other riders in that area? It may also mean you need to try and effect positive changes in their perception of ATV enthusiasts to let them know that they can't all be lumped into one category... In Wisconsin, I met a man who was what they call a trail ambassador... he was out on the trails every day handing out safety brochures, and basically out there educating the riders and the locals on responsble riding, and the benefits that the local area was receiving. A pretty neat concept if you ask me.

The state had recognised their value and is now funding the program... Some call that self policing.. I call it survival... But there again, it comes down to people getting involved and working with the authorities, instead of looking at them as the enemy. You got to ask yourself what is the reason you ride in the first place... I think a lot of us would say that for a brief moment, we get to forget our problems and just enjoy life.... the last thing we need is to expose ourselves to another conflict....so don't take the existance of law enforcement on the trails as another way of fueling the fires... from my perspective, if it means they are keeping the speeds down and making it safer for the majority of riders, including my children and grandchildren who are putting along the same trails, then I welcome them.