So butt... Whats your take on the pogo like rear suspention on the raptor 80 that will put the rear end airborn over the smallest bump? IMO that is the most dangerous design of rear suspention there is!

 

Let's look at an extreme example. The only time I have found a solid axle to be advantagous is rock crawling. Why? Because when one tire comes up, it forces the other tire down. You'll get traction through the additional articulation that you cannot get with an independent suspension. With IFS, when one tire comes up (such as on a rock) the opposite tire will simply come off the ground. But, your chassis will be much more level then with the solid axle. Thus, more balanced. And trust me, I had lot's of field work when I had my wrangler (solid) and tacoma (IFS)

A solid axle does not have good characteristics when it's combined with speed and ruff terrain. For example, let's say with a solid front axle you are in a turn and your outside tire strikes a large rock, this forces the inside tire downward. This can quickly shift your center of gravity. Not good, especially if you are already leaning. On auto's this gives you that rocking effect. Have you ever hit a parking lot at an angle with a solid axle and you dang near bust your head on the door, but then take it in a vehicle with IFS and barely notice it? I have. It's all about leverage and torques. With IFS, the inside tire is not forced to move in an equal and opposite direction as the outside tire.

However, I will admit the advantages of IFS are much more noticeable on vehicles with better shocks and travel.

 

Also I would rather the a-arm be the week link. Think of it like this, The Raptor has a stronger front solid axel,it hits a tree,the strong solid front bar stands up to the hit perfect BUT the next weekest thing will go..THE FRAME. Id much rather the a-arm bend or break than the frame.

Also the Weight of the Raptor is much heaver than the cvt's. Think about that when you think about your builit proof tank. More weight = bigger injurys if and accident was to happen. Something else to think about.

Hey dodge dude im with you....Craptors are junk,LMAO!!!!!!!!! Atleast compared to what else is out there.

 

Well I have a blaster frame to give you when the a-arm didn't bend on it. the frame collapsed before the a-arm.. and I think you said the magic word there 'legs... speed. I do not think that is an issue ... remember my need for speed days are over, and my 9 year old, just putts... speed isnt part of the mix in this environment....Maybe when he gets it into high gear someday, I'll feel different... but right now it hasn't been a problem.

And frankly, there isn't all that much articulation available on my son's mini to make a big difference either way at slow speed.. What are you really getting for movement on a raptor's front end? 2 to 3 inches max maybe? I think a case could be made that there is no suspension on a raptor 80 other than what the tires provide..... I thought that hopping motion was due to rough ground... I guess I need to get him on something else to compare to...

As for pogo stick performance on the rear end... again, it hasn't been an issue with us, as I can adjust the shocks a little, and speed hasn't come to play. I don't think the minimal ground clearance on this has let us go climbing over logs more than a few inches and it hasn't been a problem so far. I agree that the shocks are less than optimal, but that can be said about just about every mini out there. How does that relate to other sport machines in design? I think it is more a case of poor shocks than design.. but that is my opinion. Do you think the shaft drive may play a part in this as well?

When he gets going a little faster, maybe all my opinions will go right out the window.. but for now, for a beginner, it works just fine.

I saw a guy graft a blaster front end on a raptor 80 a while back on this list.. it sure looked neat... maybe I'll try something like that when he gets older and needs an upgrade

 

The rear shock on the Raptor goes straight up and down near the end of the swing arm. The geomatry is way off. That IMO is why they are so bouncy.

I guess its not a bad quad though if its going to be used for slow trail rides and stuff.

 

Not all kids ride fast or race. I agree with dragginbutt. If you watch the articulation of a single a-arm then you could also argue that it is dangerous, as it drasticly changes the camber and causes the front end to push through a corner. Tit for tat ALL OF THE MINIS OUT THERE HAVE UNSUFFICENT SUSPENSION AND STEERING GEOMETRY. I would like to see double a arms standard. And travel on suspension improved.

 

Well guys, I bought the Kasea for my youngest son, but believe it or not my oldest has an older (early 90's) vintage yamaha Moto4 100cc, which has exactly the same suspension and shaft drive as the new yamahas. He rides the heck out of that machine, and it works beautifully for his needs (no racing, though). From my perspective, either suspension would work fine for how we ride. My boy gets airborne on that Yamaha as often as he can, and it handles it well. The Yamaha is definitely antiquated by today's standards, though. I didn't consider the yamahas primarily because it's a shifter, and I didn't want that for my youngest.

While I'm here, I have a question. The shifter on that Yamaha has stripped out. I have a new shifter on order, but the shaft that it connects to (from the transmission) isn't in great shape. It isn't stripped, but the grooves are pretty worn. Do you guys have any tips to get that new shifter on there to hold, so I don't have to worry about it smoothing out the shaft? I'm sure replacing that shaft isn't easy.

Thanks

 

I would settle for decent shocks.


If you get to a point where your child is outriding the suspension of the mini, at least you can upgrade the ifs. The best shock in the world won't help that raptor 80. If you're happy with your machine, that's all that really matters! More power to you. But to say that raptor has as good a suspension as the others is ludicrous, guys!

 

We didn't say it was better... what we said was given the speed limitations for this design class, it is no worse than anything else out there, and that based solely on the intended market that they fit in, they provide a reasonable amount of performance and reliability. Would I prefer a better suspension.. sure I would... I'd be crazy not to.. but when weighing the cost/benefit of the upgrade, and considering we are talking average novice mini riding, not racing.. I doubt the benefit would justify the cost in design upgrades.

I also recognize that the Raptor 80 was designed in the dark ages, and remained the only kid on the block for a very long time when everyone else chose to bail from the class. With all the new mini class machines out there today, it is great to have choices.. and I hope Yamaha will see the need to upgrade their entry model beyond mere cosmetic body panel changes.... However I also recognize that the formula they are following has proven to be highly profitable, and unless that changes drastically, I do not see them fixing something that isn't broke.

I agree, it is old school, built like a tank... and that is exactly the reason WHY I bought one and why I can't let others bash them because it does not match up to their likes and dislikes. If we are going to making recommendations to a newbie asking questions, then we need to give them unbiased observations, and not opinions based on our own preferences. I doubt anyone can argue with the facts that indicate that a lot of these have been sold, and enjoyed by countless numbers of kids, and I at least haven't come accross a groundswell of complaints against them. A lot of people hate Jeeps too, but they sure seem to sell every one they make, and the people who do buy them, tend to keep them forever. There is something in that..

 

I try to push the best features and not get hung up on brands. I just think you can get more for your money. That's all.


Ragsman, have you considered drilling though it and inserting a small bolt and nut to help it grip. Even a snug fitting carter pin would probably work.