While trying to find a worthwhile post that sparks my interest, I keep seeing a lot of people talking about this election and the use of lands.

Now to start with, I am not a tree hugger and care very much about the use of land in the USA, and how much the government owns. But to me this election is more than that.

Being elected President is HUGE responsibility. I honestly do not want my President worrying about such small things as which land to steal or who can use the land.

I worry about such things as foreign policy. How will the new President handle all the things going on in the world? Such as oil prices? Such as the conflict in Asia? Such as the little “p” ants in the mid east? I want to know that the freedoms that I do have now will be secure for myself and for my children in the coming years.

I also worry about the economy. Over the last couple of years, I have done very well for myself. Well enough to purchase a few ATV’s and start racing. I really do not want a president to step and mess everything up.

I also worry about social security. I am only 29 years old, but ever since I figured out what social security was, I knew that I would never see a penny of it. Why? Because I am in the age group after the baby boomers. I know there is not enough money for my age bracket, let alone for my 6-year-old son. I have started investing in my retirement on my own, simply because I do not trust the government with my money. I look at the social security tax as just another tax, nothing towards my golden years. I would like to see a President that can fix the social security problem we all face.

I also worry about my son’s education. I have 2 sisters. One went to a small catholic school while another attended the local public school. I had the privilege to attend a private high school. Did I receive the better education out of my family? YES! As it stands right now, my son will not attend the public high school in any town. Unless a President steps in and fixes the problems with today schools.

I also worry about crime. It will always be there, that I do not doubt. But I do not want to live in fear of my family’s safety. Something needs to be done, and I want a President that will start to rid the streets of criminals. The age old question of “Why can’t we all just get along?” can be answered very easily. Some people are just too ignorant.

I could type all day long about all the things that I worry about in this presidential election. And while the two numb nuts that are running try and battle it out over these issues, I know in my heart, that what ever they say now, means nothing when they get into the office. The politics in the USA today really stink. I sort of remember a quote from back in my schooling days, and I think it was from one of our founding fathers: “The government of the USA (democracy) is the best so far, but it is far from perfect.”

But if we ATVer’s run around the county side yelling “vote for BUSH, because then we can ride!” It will only make us look like a bunch of simple minded fools. By all means try influence people to vote the way you believe, but just don’t look like a fool doing it. I debate people all the time about the presidential election. But I hardly bring up the topic of land grab and usage because that will not win over the voters on the fence.

Face it people, we are the minority. And we have a small voice.

Sorry guys for going on a rant, I am waiting for a program to finish running and was bored. I will let all of you get back to the bashing and name calling.

 

Mike, Speaking of worthwhile posts, yours is the best I have seen on here yet.

I enjoy riding my fourwheeler as much as anything I have ever done. But, as you said, we are a small group, and there are more important issues. Though it does frustrate me that I have to drive a minimum of 2 hrs. just to get to a worthwhile riding area!

Your concerns about Social Security are the same I have heard since before I was as old as you are now. By the way, I'm fifty-one. Even if Social Security is always here, it's not enough to retire on! I know people who have had to do that, with no other income, and I do sympathize with them. You are wise to be planning for yourself at this early age.

As for crime, school problems, and all the rest, I have seen a lot of decline since I was in high school in the sixties. What we need, republican or democrat, is a President, as well as other government officals, with some integrity and moral values!

If we are to ever see our schools improve, we will have to reverse what we have done in the past forty years. We took God, the Bible, discipline, respect for teachers and their authority, as well as respect for our parents, all out of the equation. These have been replaced with more drugs, violence, guns, and simple breakdown in our school systems, as well as all areas of our lives.

I'll get off my soap box now, just wanted you to know I appreciate your comments, and hope a lot of people see them.

Jim

 

Both good post but I have one question. Should the president have any effect on schools? What I mean by that is the last place that education should is the national level. School and Law inforcement issuse are not national issues and should be dealt with on a local level with mabey some state help if it's a poor district.
The Federal goverment has work its way into to many local issues for my liking. Too many executive orders and a wide interpretation of the constitution has given away a states rights to set laws in its own lands. That's why Utah now has a huge national monument over one of the richest coal reserves in the world..too much federal power... Utah had no input into the formation of this monument... Lets start voting more on the local level and send a message that we care about what goes on close to us as well as on a state and federal level...

 

Wow! Educated, well thought-out views here in the forumns. Who'd a thunk it?

Lasher - I believe the quote is by Winston Chrchill.

I can identify with all the views expressed here. I'm 36 and don't plan on seeing a dime of social security when I retire.

I have always considered myself to be a Republican because of the ideals of the party which were, at one time, to have a smaller centralized government. I now view the Republicans and Democrats to be two sides of the same coin.

I have done a lot of reading lately, and have found a candidate that has some truly interesting and original ideas on how to fix the government. To quote Jesse Ventura, "A presidential election is not like a horse race. You vote for the candidate that most closely represents your views and opinions not the one you think will win."

I'm planning on voting for Harry Browne, Libertarian candidate for President. Some people will say that I'm wasting my vote. I say that I voting my conceisence. Some of the things that Harry proposes are pretty far-out, but when you really think about them, they make a lot of sense.

If you want more information about this candidate, check out his web site.

These are my opinions and may not reflect the opinions of any of the groups with which I'm affiliated.

Kevin Staton
2000 Magnum 325 4x4

 

Lash, you cover some items of concern. However, I think you present a false dilemma: Either abandon the right of public access to public lands and our ATVing hobby (by voting for Gore and the Democrats) or, by voting for Bush and the Republicans, we will suffer international crises (e.g., World War III), an economic Depression, Social Security will be bankrupt, public school children will not be able to spell "cat," and crime will be rampant in the streets.

You suggest ATVers shouldn't be single-issue voters; however, the issue pentrates deeper. Clinton/Gore threaten the very fabric of our Government and our Constitution by their unilateral land-grab, subverting the will of Congress, denying any discussion and debate on Clinton's quest for a legacy as the "environmental President." Anyone this desperate for a legacy is capable of much more; what deals do you think he's promised for a "Middle East Peace Settlement?"

Our prosperity may be in part to the Republican majority in Congress, who balanced the budget: although the Clintonites now take credit for this action, Clinton and company opposed the balanced budget when introduced by the Republicans.

And speaking of prosperity, congratulations on your own; however, hang on tight; take a look at Gore's paperback just published on his "economic" plan, a book that should be sub-titled, "Santa Claus Is Coming To Town."

While we may not agree which approach better addresses Social Security, the economy, education, crime, etc., I believe the Republicans present credible scenarios, without the burden of Gore, who's stated his objective to eliminate the internal combustion engine (for environmental reasons) and who supports "one of the greatest Presidents America has ever known," Bill Clinton, in his land-grab, his backdoor creation of de facto Wilderness Areas by his so-called "roadless" initiative.

I'll just talk about a couple of ATV-related examples I know of--besides banning ATV's from "roadless" areas; ALL motorized transportation is banned, including ambulances and medevac helicopters (unless a special waiver is obtained form the Supervising Forester). Logging is prohibited; even standing dead timber, killed by gypsy moth infestation, cannot be harvested (the better to fuel a forest fire, my dear!). Utility workers cannot service existing power and utility lines by road and vehicle (imagine repairing high-voltage transmission lines after an ice storm, on foot!).

The Democratic platform promised more Federal government involvement in all areas of our lives, not just ATVing, and less individual freedom. Gore has invoked class warfare in his campaign, reminiscent of Huey Long's demagoguery, "Soak the rich! Share the wealth! Every man a king!"

It worked for Huey Long; it may also work for Al Gore.

Again, I respect your differing views, Lash; however, I too believe the election hinges on more than the single issue of an ATV-friendly administration. Given the eight years the Democrats have had to "fix" the issues you raise, I doubt "the most influential Vice President of all time" would do more as President.

Tree Farmer

 

Lasher

I applaud you for posting a well thought out political thread. The last thing we need is another post entitled. "Gore Sucks"

I will admit that life and politics is more than atving alone. This is why I choose to vote for Bush:

1. Al Gore is not shy about disliking the internal combustion engine. The very fabric of our ecomony depends on the internal combustion engine (especially in the industrial states). While I doubt Gore would have any luck banning autos, he may have better luck with banning recreational vehicles from public property. This would mean the end of ATVing for me. Strike One.

2. Al Gore is against private ownership of firearms. I own several firearms. I ensure they are secured and only used in a safe manner. Most of my weapons are used primarily for hunting, but some are kept around for home protection. While I doubt Gore will succeed in banning all firearms. He will succeed in eliminating handguns and making other firearms extremely difficult to own. (See point three). Strike two.

3. I really detest the new order of law in this country. If a government (state, local, or federal) does not like something, they ban together and sue it. I do not smoke and am not a big tobacco fan. But if the government does not like tobacco, put a law through Congress and try to ban it. They know that it will not work, so they beat the company up with lawsuits until they settle. The point I am getting to is that with the current round of lawsuits against gunmakers, most of the manufacturers will be out of business and the remaining ones will have to increase prices so high on their products will not be affordable for the average joe to obtain. If they want to ban firearms. Put a bill into Congress and try to ban it. What is next. Lawsuits filed against alcohol companies, atv manufacturers, and who knows what else. Since the democrats are the ones doing all the suing, strike three.

As for the education issue, I went to public school (both High School and College). I feel I received a very good education. I am a CPA in the state of Ohio and work for a fortune 500 company. The federal government has no business in public education. That should be left to the local governments and the states. Bush is no savior to the world, but Gore is nothing but a snake and a liar. Just my opinion, and you know what they are worth

 

Gentlemen, I applaud all of you!!! I know that we don't all agree on all political issues but one thing we do agree on is that the current folks in the White House plan on making our sport a thing of the past. I plan on going to Brown Mountain ORV trails next weekend, I hope that 2 years from now I can still go. I posted a topic somewhat like this on Land Issues. Its not real fancy but it states how I feel in regards to the next election. Ride safe!!!