Yet the orv (cough) "community" sets a higher priority for (and is more interested in) building more trails (especially great <U>big</U> ones around suburban Detroit)...instead of using all that extra energy they 'miraculously' found to build these things...INTO ACTUALLY FIXING/MAINTAINING/PATROLING (hand-in-hand with law enforcement) WHAT THEY RIDE <u>PRESENTLY!!!</u><u>.

</u>I just 'marvel' at these guys who just sit at our orv advisory board meeting being told that they will receive over 750 miles more trail if they "just keep their mouths shut"....yet when the DNR claims at these same meetings that outlaw use is out of control; they have no idea what has been damaged or where and that even a potential source of past and future trails (timber harvesting) might be threatened?...these big city slicker riders out of suburban Detroit prod their leaders to claim:...."well by god, I don't care 'what' you do or what your problems are with this system we have TODAY...just make damn sure you start now building <u>us</u> a big 'ol riding area here out our back doors; so that we don't have to 'travel' so much TOMORROW!!!" (and give us $4 out of every sticker sold to build/maintain it!).

Does anybody now understand why these guys <u>don't</u> want any of this "crap" being brought up?

 

These big city slickers you mention have EVERY right to bitch and moan about a southern riding area,its THEIR ORV dollars that is in the fund.It was also stated in the LAST ORV Plan from all the way back in or around 1990 that this riding area was SUPPOSE to be constructed and ON THE ground,yet 15yrs later, they still dont have it..These guys are only asking for what they were allready suppose to have,and nothing more.

Look at the gas revenue that is developed from ATVs and dirtbikes in Michigan..Users were also suppose to benifit from the tax revenue we've generated thru the use of our ORVs,and still to date,not one penny of that ORV tax dollar benifits the ORVer in this State.

 

Every day, the governemnt agrees "in principle" to a number of projects that are proposed and never completed. Yet the interesting thing to me regarding your way of thinking has to do with what you expect from those same people.

Your "hero" here in Michigan orv leadership.....has claimed that he will "out of thin air"; come up with over 750 miles of NEW trails to be put on the ground by 2008....WITHOUT <U>ANY</U> INVOLVEMENT from the same DNR you want out there building your big city slicker riding area (the DNR have continually informed me that they know nothing about what your 'hero' has proposed...yet the same guy continually claims that he is working "hand-in-hand with the DNR" on these projects.

Maybe the membership up on these forums can 'correct' me on this...yet have the vast majority of you out there had problems pulling even "5" miles of new state trails out of your butts....let alone seven hundred and fifty of them? (with absolutely NO help from anybody in state government?).

Again, this is why these guys dread <U>any</U> of these matters being discussed openly; as there has <U>always</U> been this big shroud of secrecy over orv matters here in Michigan....especially (as one could imagine) those which affect big city Detroit riders and their arrogant view of what trails should be put where and how trail maintenance funds should be spent.(privitization using modern maintenance equipment on a standardized/immeditately accountable basis = "not good"...maintenance funds funneled to unaccountable clubs still using machetes and pull-behind graders "good" [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img] ).

Again, answering the question which this topic begs: "Which group of atv users causes the most environmental damage?"

It is the users who feel building MORE trails is more important than evaluating, maintaining and FIXING the ones they already "have" <U>FIRST</U>.(and partnering with as many groups as possible to do so instead of <U>competing</U> with those same people).

 

MY
ORV hero?

Blackballed,just exactly WTF have YOU acchomplished in the last 27 months of YOUR DIS-SERVICE to the ORV community EXCEPT for blasting your big Freaking mouth over nothing more than Bull-hit?.I can tell you a few things that my 'hero' has done,


We have accomplished 278 [if you even know what 278 is?]

We accomplished the results of getting an ORV safety Task Force on board to straighten out the poorly mis-aligned safety classes the DNR were responsable for.

We will get some things resolved out of the Draft Plan[did YOU even SEND a letter?]

We got 100 miles of rail trail in the U.P.

We got 4 counties in the LP to open their roads

He has forced those in responsable ORV positions to be ACCOUNTABLE for their shortcomings to our sport.

Has spent 100s of hours of HIS OWN time visiting other communities and their leaders to strengthen our hold on county road openings for ORVs in the LP..ect ect ect??

My ''HERO'' cant fix everything there is wrong with the ORV situations we currently have here in Michigan,BUT,to his defense,he has addressed and acchomplised more ORV issues in his 27 months of service than the old ORV administration got done in 10 yrs.

You really need to do your HOMEWORK before you start calling these guys out,especially if alls your going to do is 'CRY WOLF'

 

I'd 'like' to reply...yet it seems that Muddy has (again) made no attempt to even 'try' and link his comment matter to the topic at hand.

These guys all point to what 'they' have done....yet the real story here has <U>always</U> been, that not only haven't these been true "community" decisions; but every one of those decisions have been made <U>behind</U> closed doors with the kind of rude/arrogant behavior you witness above towards anybody who so much as "dare" knock on it.

We may be perceived as 'backwoods' when you live outside of the glare of those big city lights.....yet we know a crook when we see one and aren't afraid to call a spade a spade.

 

TRUE COMMUNITY DECISIONS?

Yes,and just WHO the hell do you suspect brought forth these TRUE COMMUNITY DECISIONS? Did somebody YOU know bring forth these same ORV topics of discussions to the powers that be in their community,or was it my 'HERO' that first brought them to the light of the communities so that a COMMUNITY DECISION [your words] could even be decided upon?

You claim that these decisions were made behind closed doors?You also have CLEARLY indicated that these decisions were made by the COMMUNITY in an attempt to discredit my ''HERO'', YET in another sentence,you say these are CLOSED MEETINGS to anyone who dares to knock on the doors..

What is it BlackBalled,the COMMUNITY that made these important decisions decided to close the door on the rest of the ORV community?

Give the folks of this forum a break---

They can see right THRU you[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-frown.gif[/img]

 

Its the newbies that are causing the most damage...the people who still have no idea how great our riding areas are and what its worth to protect them...the ones that leave/burn trash

I was taught to leave the place you were better than when you arrived...its not to much to ask of everyone to spend 3minutes while the truck is warmming up to walk around with a bag and fill it with others trash...pick up the cans the wrappers etc...this goes for me wether its the dunes race track or the creek on the back of your property

 

(lol)....I don't think even you know what you've just tried to get across above. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img] (you lost 'me' midway through the third sentance...).

 

I agree with you; yet I don't think this community can afford to wait for these young people to 'grow up'...especially when our generation has had little interest in picking up where the <u>last</u> generation (older cyclists and sledders who often times built the vast majority of these trails we ride today) left off.

There will always be young punks that ruin it for everybody and places for them to go on the web where older riders (us) don't ever 'dare' question their boasted upon actions. And at the pace we're going now with even our national riding organizations unwilling to "stand up like a man" or even so much as question these same people?(with maximizing non-profit membership money and keeping 'a job' holding precedent)...our generation will be held accountable for not holding down this fort until at least some of them grew up. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]

 

QUOTE---[lol)....I don't think even you know what you've just tried to get across above. (you lost 'me' midway through the third sentance END OF QUOTE

The post you dont understand was not intended for anyone with less than a 3rd grade education to comprehend,so dont be so hard on yourself.