After re-reading my previous post on this thread, I have to say I noticed a distinct change in attitude... Mine to be specific.

First off, I appolgise for suggesting violence to solve this issue. that would have made things worse. Also, in listening to the comments of others, I now believe that it is possible the new guy on the block could very well own the property in question, and the ATV entusiast is indeed tresspassing... which is a common practice these days.

TImes have changed folks. YOu can't just blast off without permission. Written is the preffered method. It is time we try and become the good neighbors... And I even think that the only way that we are going to solve the many issues we have with the environmentalists is to engage them in dialog, and work together... Finger pointing and name calling is not going to solve the problems.

Lastly, I cannot over emphasize the point that the landowner is in the position of power here. No matter what happened, they will seen as the victim by the courts. SO it is important to remember that....

 

Yup, we have people that are pouring in from the north east here in south florida. Same problem, they come here shut down the riding areas and hunting areas , totaly changing the culture that was atv's. We cant stand it when they come here and say "well thats the was we did things up north". My response is "if its so great there why did you move here". We also say if you dont like it here take I75 north and get out. I moved to south for this culture not to destroy it about 20 yrs ago. If they want to just sit around in peace n quiet waiting to die then they should just put a bullit in there heads and get it over with.

 

I made an observation and prediction a while back... and I stick to it. When I was young, I could just go blasting off into the woods and not worry about who owend what etc. The deal was, we could do what we wanted as long as we didn't damage the person's property, crops etc, or make a nuisance of ourselves. Back then the machines were not very powerful, and chances of getting hurt were minimal. Now days, with loud pipes, more horsepower than the local power plant and people hell bent in causing as much damage and pissing off the most people being the goal, well, I can see where people don'tlike us being around.

Back to my predictions... I predicted that riding as we knew it then is over, and that the only places we will have to ride soon will be in designated riding parks. That in itself will not be a bad thing, it is what you make of it. The last bastians of what I will call free will riding, are in areas like the Paiute trail in Utah, or the Hatfield McCoy.. SOme states like MI and WI still support trail systems because they understand the importance of recreational dollars, and with the popularity of the ATV, you can't ignore the demand for riding areas.

What is the alternative to the individual? If you can afford it, buy a piece of land to ride on. If not, try and join a club of like minded individuals who can pool resources together to either purchase, lease, or out right be granted permission to ride on private land.

The other side of this, it the need for people to stop bitching and get involved with state and local authorities to 1) promote ATV as a legitimate family form of recreation, 2) assist in building and maintaining trail systems, 3) teach, practice and promote safe, and responsible riding.

I have already lived through times when ATV's were outlawed for good reasons.... we are fast approaching that dark time again. If not you and I, who is going to take up the cause?

Again I say, the good old days are over.... we need to adjust with the times... save what we can...

 

Most circumstances regarding landowner vrs ATV trespassers never get to court per se as summary judgments are given in support of existing legislation. What trespassers seemingly fail to realize is that challenging landowners is not only a lost cause but contributes to a growing sentiment against all ATV activity on private and public lands.

 

Times change, places change and those who don't personally adapt to those changes have historically been in the minority. ATVing is a relatively new recreational sport and way down on the food chain of outdoor recreational priority primarily due to the ever-increasing soiled image it gains from trespassing, loud exhausts, littering and wanton destruction of both private and public property. While you may not contribute to that image, you're part of it with your statement of denying peace and quiet to those in the majority who prefer that lifestyle over ATVing.

 

georged,
I dont deny them peace and quiet..So when is over development enough. When we are stacked on top of each other. You missed my whole point and since you are not from my area you cant possibly understand. Have you ever been to Miami.. Do you even have a clue what happened over there. They actually tried to make the primary language spanish. Hey maybe we need to send them all to Oregon and chop all the trees down around that pretty little house of yours. Then over develope the whole area. I guarantee you you wouldnt be singing the same tune Obviously you havent been overun with illegals or have had you kids forced to learn spanish in elementary school. All this stuff has happend within the last 2 yrs.

Oregon has like 20+ riding areas and is 1/4 the size of Florida. We have 2 and are actively fighting for some land to get out of the developed areas. As far as noise and peace and quiet, I hear car radio systems louder than the quads and nothing is done. No, I dont accept what you have said. If people want peace and quiet then they should all move to Oregon.

 

Been to Miami and and other than the weather and being a primary entry point for Cuban (for 50+ years) and S. American immigration, it's no different than any other US metropolitan area. As we migrate from industrial to service economy people now follow people, not manufacturing, for what jobs are available. That drives metropolitan housing development which drives land prices and pushes rural access out of reach to those within or near any metropolitan area. As any developer can tell you, the more houses that will fit on X land, the better the margins. As more and more people leave Eastern metropolitan areas due to declining industry and uncontrolled birth rates decimate S. American economies, that social condition is going to continue expanding, not stop or decrease.

As far as the ethnic mix of any metro area goes, you'd better prepare yourself for additional changes in that scenario. The US census bureau forecasts that by 2050 24% of Americans not including illegal immigration will be of Hispanic heritage. As usual, warm climates in metropolitan areas that offer non-seasonal employment will experience the largest population gains.

For the right price progress can have my house and land to build cookie cutters as close together as it wants. For all I care, they can build the ugliest concrete apartment houses imaginable on it, all connected all the way to the borders. But I doubt population expansion and relocation will get this far in my lifetime as I'm not that close to a major metropolitan area. But if it happens, it happens. Life goes on.

I've experienced what I considered wonderful places with the lifestyle I prefer eliminated by progress several times and despite the same frustration you're experiencing, I've always found another wonderful place to live. This is a big country and there are still many wonderful places to live. If ATVing is a major factor in your life and you feel squeezed by progress, I'd think it time to plan on buying your own land where you have the freedom to pursue your interest without the constraints imposed by society in a metropolitan area. One thing you can bet on, the past has a good probability of never being revisited by you, me or most other folks. The 'good old days' are gone forever. One must make good new days or whine about conditions currently impossible to achieve.

 

Look folks, what is going on in your local area is going on all over the country. We can sit here and whine about it... till we drop dead. the real question is what are you doing about it personally? when was the last time you contacted your state and local elected officials and gave your opinion? If you fall in the 99.9 percentile, you probably have not done so. We can't hope to win or survive unless we make a huge dent in that low rate of interest. The land owners and developers understand one thing only... good old greenbacks. Politicians understand VOTES. It is up to you to find a way to make it work... it won't do it all by itself. If you can't find time or a way to get involved, then don't complain. It is that simple.

 

georged,
I am hopeing to move my family within the next 2 yrs. You are right about a few things and I am envious of were you live. We are hopeing to move to the mid west and will base my move of my love for the ATV sport. Utah is known to be one of the most supported states of the OHV sport. Considerations are money , jobs and unpopuated areas. I can stand the heat, cold or mountains. I love the outdoors and dont think much of govment and local conditions forcing me to stay inside due to overcrowding, poor planing and illegal imigration.

 

If you're considering Utah as a residence, desirable employment will be difficult due to that state's Mormon dominance with 65% of residents belonging to the evangelistic Church of Latter Day Saints. If you're a Mormon, you'll fit right in.

One great feature of the Internet is providing the ability to throughly explore any area from one's PC at one's leisure. Before we made our last move I researched every county in Oregon for tax base, property values and all the demographics including employment, weather, medical services, population breakdowns, crime, traffic and shopping. From there I picked three counties, did the same research and put one general area in each county on the short list for personal inspection. For me, the best part was surfing realtor websites. Pictures and prices are invaluable in selecting a residence and it is fun looking at beautiful country.

We then traveled to all three counties; commercial flights and 11-days of driving a big rental SUV I didn't care about let us see even the most rural, undeveloped areas. And then came back three times after deciding on one area before we bought the land. A six-month process. It's a big adventure, for anyone employed all vacation and personal time for a year, and I recommend the process to anyone that's serious about relocation now or for later.

If anyone needs tips on moving to a rural area, I've done it several times. The most important items are taxes/water/utilities/roads and legal description on the deed including easements. The rest is just the ability of adjusting to change and that's what the desire for relocation is all about.

We'll move again, we've decided the winter is too mild here with regard to not enough snow but that won't be for at least two years. We're Westerners who have lived on both Coasts and in the South, so I'm unable to comment on the Mid-West.