Im impressed, that youd spend the time to read something like this...arent you afraid of big brother bush might be watching? Anyone whos been a federal employee, knows theres a lot of truth in this article. This is how america works...(or more accurately, how it disfunctions)

Isnt it funny how the pentigon commissions a person with impectable credentials to do a study on the armies readyness, and when the conclusions dont match the agenda, cheney sends out rummy to discredit him? (Thats been in the news the last couple of days. )

Heres the second half
here


CNSNews.com) - Whistleblowers who have stepped forward to accuse the National Security Agency of retaliating against them by falsely labeling them "paranoid," "delusional," or "psychotic," cover a range of political views. Russell D. Tice, a self-described conservative, believes President Bush should be impeached over the current controversy involving the NSA's domestic surveillance program. Another whistleblower, Diane Ring, is a staunch Bush supporter who supports the surveillance program.

Ring is a former NSA computer scientist who said she was ordered to undergo a psychiatric evaluation after she ran afoul of a colonel at the Pentagon. Her case differs from the others in that she was not initially a whistleblower, but believes the retaliation arose from a personal vendetta against her. The colonel had chastised Ring for missing a briefing. When Ring explained that she had been directed by her branch chief, who was her superior, to work on a classified program during the briefing period and that the directive took priority, the official reportedly "blew up."

Ring said she was first given a "management consult," instructing her to seek counseling then was pressed to see NSA forensic psychologist Dr. John Michael Schmidt. After she lodged a complaint about the alleged retaliation with the NSA inspector general, Ring said the agency moved to revoke her security clearance, "red-badging" her. "Red-badged" employees only have access to the corridors at the NSA.

"I had just received a 4.5 out of 5.0 job evaluation rating 3 months prior," Ring told Cybercast News Service.

According to Ring, her colleagues told her in the hallways at NSA that they had been ordered not to communicate with her. Ring said she was assigned to spend her days in a room full of other "red-badgers." She believes the isolation was one part of an intentional campaign to break her and drive her out of the NSA.

For eight months, the former action officer from the Pentagon read books and magazines. "They had these red-badgers spread out all over the place. Some were sent to pump gas in the motor pool and chauffeur people around," said Ring. "In our room, some people brought sleeping bags in and slept all day long. Others read. I would think that would incense the taxpaying public."

Soon after being isolated, Ring said she began losing sleep and was ordered to undergo more psychiatric evaluations administered by Schmidt. Ring said Schmidt eventually reported that another doctor had diagnosed her with a "personality disorder," but according to Ring, she later produced a letter from that doctor who said he had never told Schmidt such a thing.

Like others in her position, Ring began to go to the NSA Employee Assistance Service (EAS) for confidential counseling about what she was going through. But a current NSA officer who spoke with Cybercast News Service on the condition of anonymity and is identified in this report as "Agent X," warned that NSA officials are able to obtain 'confidential' EAS records when they are attempting to retaliate against an employee.

"Their goal is to freak you out, to get inside your mind," X said.

Ring claims that NSA General Counsel Paul Caminos lied about her case before a judge, denying that he had sent an internal email forbidding anyone from supporting Ring. Ring said she was "floored" by Caminos' actions, comparing the process to being "shell-shocked."

"I served in Bosnia. We had mines going off all around us, all day long. That was nothing compared to this," Ring said.

She now plans to send a letter to the new NSA director, Lt. Gen. Keith B. Alexander, asking that he order an investigation of her case. "This is his time to shine," said Ring. "He can really clean house."

Like "J," the linguist whose account was detailed in Part 1 of this report, Ring believes that the problem at NSA involves only a few people. "The whole lot of them is corrupt though," Ring said. "There is zero integrity in the process. And zero accountability. "

'Doing a mental'

Former NSA officer Thomas G. Reinbold confirmed that the practice of "psychiatric abuse" inside the NSA is "very widespread."

"They call it 'doing a mental' on someone," Reinbold said, and it has a "chilling effect" on other potential whistleblowers, he added. "They fear for their careers because they fear someone will write up bad [psychological] fitness reports on them."

Reinbold was labeled "paranoid" and "delusional" by Schmidt after he complained to an inspector general on Feb. 25, 1994, that the federal government was guilty of contract tampering. An evaluation conducted by Schmidt eight months earlier had concluded that Reinbold did not present a mental health or security risk, according to court documents.

Reinbold was working at the time as a contracting officer representative assigned to the Naval Security Group (NAVSECGRU) at Sugar Grove, W.Va.

NSA temporarily suspended his "Sensitive Compartmented Information" (SCI) security clearance, which is more exclusive than a "Top Secret" clearance and Reinbold said he was escorted from Sugar Grove by armed naval officers.

Reinbold accused the NSA of fabricating evidence in his personnel file in order to oust him. The phony evidence, Reinbold alleged, included that he was a danger to himself and others, and that he had said "if [he] was going down, [he] would take everyone with him." During this time, Reinbold also requested that Schmidt's earlier statements, labeling him "paranoid" and "delusional" be removed from his file.

An administrative hearing held on Sept. 7, 1995, found that the revocation of Reinbold's security clearance was unjustified and that the NSA should restore both his clearance and his job. However, Reinbold was not able to get the damaging information removed from his file. He later sued, but then was forced to retire because of his diabetes. During his career, Reinbold said, he received 26 commendations and awards as well as a medal for the strategic intelligence he provided during the first Persian Gulf War.

"I gave 29 years of my life to the intelligence community," Rienbold said. "They couldn't get me out the door fast enough. There are very good people, getting screwed and going through hell," he told Cybercast News Service.

Some of the whistleblowers plan to ask U.S. Sen. Barbara Mikulski (D-Md.) for help. While Diane Ring wants her job back, or at minimum, to be allowed to resign with her security clearance intact, Tice believes there is no reason for optimism. "Our time is over," Tice said he told Ring. "But we can make a difference for those who come behind us," he added.

Cybercast News Service contacted the NSA on Jan. 17 about the allegations contained in this report, including those involving the security department, the NSA inspector general, the Office of the General Counsel and staff psychologists such as Schmidt. Two days later, Don Weber, senior NSA media advisor responded. "At this time I have no information to provide; however, if that changes, I will email you soonest. Thanks for the query," Weber stated.

Dr. Don Soeken, founder and director of Integrity International, a whistleblower advocacy group, supports the public stance taken by the whistleblowers. Soeken became a whistleblower himself while employed as a psychiatric caseworker for the U.S. Public Health Service in the 1970s. He told Cybercast News Service that he discovered the government employees sent to him with diagnoses of mental illness or imbalance were actually whistleblowers who had no mental problems. Soeken's superior backed his findings, which eventually led to hearings on Capitol Hill.

"When this retaliation first starts, there's a tendency by bosses to use code words like 'delusional,' 'paranoid' and 'disgruntled'" said Soeken. "Then they use psychiatric exams to destroy them. They kill the messenger and hope the PR spin will be bought by the public."

Tom Devine, legal director for the Government Accountability Project, a Washington D.C.-based non-profit advocacy group, told Cybercast News Service that "psychiatric retaliation" is a knee-jerk reaction against whistleblowers.

"It's a classic way to implement the first rule of retaliation: shift the spotlight from the message to the messenger. We call it the 'Smokescreen Syndrome.'" Superiors investigate and brand the whistleblower for anything ranging from financial irregularities, to family problems, sexual practices, bad driving records or even failure to return library books, Devine said. "It's a form of abuse of power."

Beth Daly, senior investigator for the Project on Government Oversight (POGO), said whistleblowers in the intelligence community have no real protection due to flaws in the Whistleblower Protection Act. "You have to go through the inspector general or the director of the CIA to let them know if you're going to Congress and what you're going to disclose. And inspector generals are notorious for revealing who whistleblowers are," Daly said.

On Feb. 14, U.S. Rep. Christopher Shays (R-Conn.), chairman of the House National Security subcommittee, will begin hearings to investigate the allegations of security clearances being revoked as a form of retaliation. Vince Chase, an investigator with the subcommittee, told Cybercast News Service that three panels of witnesses would testify and that the focus would be on the lack of protections for national security agency whistleblowers.

Some intelligence agency whistleblowers had been skeptical about the proceedings, believing that their concerns would not be accurately represented by witnesses such as inspectors general. But the subcommittee has now invited Russell D. Tice to testify, as well as the organization to which he belongs, the National Security Whistleblowers Coalition (NSWBC).

Prof. William Weaver, senior advisor to NSWBC and a legal expert in governmental abuse, is expected to emphasize the lack of oversight and direct accountability. The Concerned Foreign Service Officers Coalition, an NSWBC partner, will be offering written testimony as well.

Former FBI language specialist Sibel Edmonds, president of the National Security Whistleblowers Coalition, praised the development in a letter sent Jan. 25 to supporters. "This shows once again that we may be powerless in pursuing our own individual cases and going against the monstrous government brick wall of abuse," Edmonds wrote, "but together, collectively, as a coalition of now 70+ (national security) whistleblowers, we have a voice, a mighty powerful one indeed."

Meanwhile, Agent X, Russell Tice and the other whistleblowers quoted in this report believe other former NSA employees might be better able now to come to terms with what happened. "They probably feel alone, but this shows they're not alone. There are a lot of people who this has happened to," Agent X said.

 

[quote]
Originally posted by: hondabuster
I have a real problem with that statement. Upon reading this, one would conclude that there was widespread specific information that GWB ignored and put Americans at risk of dying. Why the heck would anyone - let alone GWB - ignore it or do nothing? I am sorry, but if you honestly believe that ANY American would intentionally let 3,000 people die on our own soil, I would have to question your sanity. I wouldn't even claim that of wackos like Michael Moore, and he's on the top of the wacko list....

Statements like "everyone in government...." cannot be qualified or proved. I believe that using generalizations of other peoples' possible views in order to match YOUR own opinions is completely irresponsible. Who are you to make such a claim? Do you have "everyones" signed note supporting your claim?

Even the people that had SOME idea of SOMETHING possibly happening had NO idea of exactly what, where, when or specifically who. As if GWB knew all of this after being in office for 8 months... I suppose that no blame whatsoever could be placed upon the shoulders of the prior administration? If anyone sat on their hands regarding al quifa, it was the prior administration. They had the WTC attacked in '93 and STILL let bin scumbag run loose. It wasn't Clinton that had anything to do with the Patriot Act.

The issue here is how we are to prevent anything further from happening. Now. Today.

People better get used to the fact that our world has changed. We no longer fear the Russians nuking us into oblivion. We are no longer hiding under our school desks after air raid warnings. We are dealing with the lowest form of life on this planet - those that hide, murder, kidnap innocent people and slice their heads off while being videotaped just to enhance their own egos and pretend to be powerful "men", whereas they are nothing more than cowardly, ignorant fanatics. All the while, they sneak around, making every attempt to NOT be seen or heard or watched.

We need to allow our government to listen to international phone calls to known terrorist supporting countries or those that allow terrorists to operate, or phone calls from those places to within the US, and we need to know what the heck they are doing, what they are saying. THAT is what is happening. It is NOT about spying on grandma. Who the heck would care about that?

Furthermore, making up stories of "Domestic Spying" as the media and some politicians have attempted to do in order to find some way to undermine this administration is sickening. NOT ONE SINGLE AMERICAN has lodged ANY complaints that they have been subject to warrantless spying. But somehow, Al Bore can claim that "Millions" of Americans are being spied upon. Oddly, no one has the ***** to stand up and say - Shut the &^%$ Up! Gee, I wish he'd read this thread tho...

Apparently, some politicians are privy to secret information about this whole spying topic and did nothing about it while it was occuring. Now, suddenly, with poll numbers rising for GWB, they somehow care about "us" and our rights... Where were THEY before 9/11? They are government employees too, right? Are we all to believe that every democrat suddenly vaporized out of the entire government once GWB took office? None of the intelligence commitee members were democrats? The entire intelligence community suddenly became GWB's cronies? Was there NO information gained prior to GWB?

THAT is what is called pure and utter BS!

 

[quote]
Originally posted by: SandmanBlue
I'm sure everyone has access to NSA records of who they listen to as grounds for complaints. Sounds like you need a 1950s era bomb shelter if you're so naive as to actually believe electronic eavesdropping is going to uncover intelligence from unbreakable cell based groups who can afford $250 unbreakable code sat burst messages and throw-away prepaid cell phones. As with the Iraq fiasco, you've again been refocused. More billions spent on conventional means employed in unconventional circumstance to keep the chicken split US public pacified while being spent into third-world status.

 

Have to admit that through all the very interesting and important issues raised here there are two that stand out most to me.

First is that we can not allow our goverment no matter which "rape and pillage" party is in charge to steal our civil rights from us period, and I mean for any reason!!

Second we have to stop accepting all this biased nonsense between the two parties to effect how we see things and how we the people accept or allow how our goverment is ultimately run. By this I mean it shouldnt matter which party someone belongs too when deternmining their level of success or failure, and especially their accountability for their actions. We need to lose the groups, and cause each and every member to run on their own merits, and nothing else.

Remember these parties as were lead to call them are actually very large, wealthy and well run business that have the power of running our entire country, they are more concerned with the prospect of purpetual existance than any one of us, or even one of their own members. As much as the loss or scandle of a high level elected official would effect either party they are not as valuable as the continuation of the party itself, and basically expendable. Now knowing they would offer up anyone of their own how can we expect anyone in that party to actually work for us the people or our country when they have such a large and pressured obligation to their party.

Where I am going with this is that there are all kinds of things that have happened and will happen inthe future that we all would find unbelievable and unaceptable, but the parties are not willing to give up these things or actions, and instead will offer up one of their own (only after every other scare tactic or others are exhausted) before actually working to end any of the things the people of the us find improper or unacceptable.

Therefore the only way to make a difference is to look well beyond any democrat or republican concerns or covers and actually look at the substance, and then eventually put enough trust and belief in the various independant choices next election and put enough into office to cause the mold to change if not eventually break.

Dont think an Ind candidate would be able to get anything done in the senate, congress, or white house, well then just look at what has been getting done (or not) by the members of either party.

I think we all need to get past the smoke screens and cons, and wake up already!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I actually DID think that an IND candidate could win and made the mistake of voting for Perot in '92, which inadvertantly sent Billy-boy into the White House. I am more likely to believe that we need to put term limits on our representatives, remove lobbyists from Washington and only allow donations to a specific candidate from the state or district in which he/she is running. That would curtail a lot of the misbehavior.

I found this interesting - off topic, but it seems there is a qualified answer to wmd's and where they went http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,182932,00.html

I am sure somebody hwew will try to disqualify it 'cuz it's from Fox, but Fox is not the source. They are interviewing the source - an ex-Iraqi General. Basically, the wmd's went to Syria - with a blessing from Damascus.

History may show that all of our intelligence was correct, it's just that Saddam was one step ahead of us by hiding/moving all the wmd's to Syria about 6 weeks before we went in there. Personally, I'd like to see our intelligence community proved to be on the mark after all. Not for political reasons, but in order to show the world that we actually DO know what the heck we are doing.

 

That may be wishful thinking.
If that story were true....dont you think rice, cheney and bush and rummy would be all over it? Im sure they are just dieing to say "told you so". Also those war mongers are just itching to pick another spot to fight terrorism...or spread democracy (take your pick), and if they had evidence syria was implicated in any way...we'd be bombing them.
Then theres the practicle side...weve had satelites covering Iraq for years, and towards the start of the war, we had drones and U2 overflights. Theres only so many roads to syria, and we watched them all. Seems to me, our own government claimed there were more than 30,000 tons, of the wmd. Thats quite a bit more than a pickup truck full, and the over head eyes would have spotted it before it got to the border...and where it went if it went beyond the border.
Then theres the many years of weapons inspectors, who never saw any sign of wmd, and they are trained observers, if there were weapons, they would have seen it.

 

440 man, I have to ask a simple question, and please I don't intend to insult you with it.. but have you ever lived or traveled extensively outside the US? I kind of get teh impression that you have not spent a great deal of time doing either with your response.

WHat the media and our leaders want you to believe is that the world loves Americans, and want to emulate our lives. Nothing could be further from the truth.... (Harsh words, but the truth)

In most cases, the majority of the citizens on the street either do not trust Americans, or they outright despise us. In most cases where it appears we have an ally in government, it is generally because we are paying huge sums of money to support governments that can't seem to find ways of making that money trickle down to help the average citizen in their country. And because the US is supporting what they see as corrupt local leadership, we are the enemy in their eyes.

Ferdinand Marcos, Saddam Hussein, Shah of Iran are but a few examples. Haiti, Panama and many others fall in that category too. We are now engaged in furious battles to protect governments in Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Kuwait, Iraq, Afganistan, Israel to name a few.. and all receive huge sums of money to support leaderships that might not survive without our support. That says a bit about the people.. and thier ability and willingness to support their government.

Germany, and many other European nations, as well as Japan, who both are recipients of our support to rebuild their nations from the devestation of war that they declared on us.. and now they laugh at the antics of our government and look for ways to screw our economy.

I am not so much down on GWB, however there has been a lot of criticism, and it is obvious that the administration looks at the complaints from our citizens with a sly grin and nod. Very little planning was done, and it was pure arrogance by persons like Condolezza Rice that ignored what our own agencies were telling them. Why even Collin Powell was taken behind the woodshed for his dissenting opinions.

No, I can't say we are getting the whole truth, and in many cases, I know that what we read in the paper is not always the whole truth..... I just get tired of being led around by a nose ring, and have to look at the guys pulling on the ropes with their evil smirks on their face.

Mark my words folks, at no time in the history of this nation has an administration needed to hide behind executive priviledge and is going to need presidential pardons more than this one....

 

At one time I traveled on an extensive personal and business basis (non-military), most of the continents, and even then I kept a low profile as most Americans were generally considered rude, demanding and crass, even more so than Germans, who are probably the world's most demanding travelers. Now I'm told by friends and business acquaintances who still travel internationally that its even less enjoyable with the USD position and current administration policy. Can't argue with any of your post.

 

Draggin I wont quote that again just to save space, but no insult taken (hey its the internet anyhow right) and in reply no I have never actually lived outside the US, but I have traveled a bit and even had a couple extended stays, was it extensive? I really couldnt say and thats subjective anyhow, but I have been to enough foreign countries, and spent enough time there to know what you posted above is totally accurate.

I also have and had a good amount of friends and associates from all over the globe (including some of those countries in the spot light today) and have had the pleasure to learn from their experiences too. I know traveling and being there in person can not be replaced thru talking with a friend, but you also can not fully appreciate what the people who have lived there most of their life are going thru and honestly think of us just by being there.

One thing that most all seem to agree with no matter if they were from Canada or Palestine, Europe or South America etc is that our govt's actions internationally have created a feeling of being a bully, arrogant, tyrant, and trying to control what is decided on, and how things are run in a country that doesnt want to be told how to do things, and that we just "buy" our way into their countries affairs.

Not all seemed or admitted to hate, but there was obvious resentment and I still believe some who I still know today that remain in the US are not happy at all with what has and is happening.

When you think about it this has to be tough for any american citizen who was originally from the ME region, and if there getting info from their friends or families back there it only makes things worse.

At first I was going to joke about needing to travel more, but honestly with all the bs happening I prefer to cut back from any international travel, and guess I will end up spending more free time in Vegas [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

 

There was an interesting article today, on the top government lawyers in the justice dept, who have quietly resigned and moved on, over the illegal wiretapping of american citizens. These people are some of the best we have, and were conservative...yet were so overwelmed by the politics, and stonewalling, and illegal behavior in the administration, they either had to quit in protest, and fear of future procecusion, or were squeezed out, when they protested the illegal activities.
.
This is from the right leaning MSNBC,
here

Heres a paragraph from the article

These Justice Department lawyers, backed by their intrepid boss Comey, had stood up to the hard-liners, centered in the office of the vice president, who wanted to give the president virtually unlimited powers in the war on terror. Demanding that the White House stop using what they saw as farfetched rationales for riding rough-shod over the law and the Constitution, Goldsmith and the others fought to bring government spying and interrogation methods within the law. They did so at their peril; ostracized, some were denied promotions, while others left for more comfortable climes in private law firms and academia. Some went so far as to line up private lawyers in 2004, anticipating that the president's eavesdropping program would draw scrutiny from Congress, if not prosecutors. These government attorneys did not always succeed, but their efforts went a long way toward vindicating the principle of a nation of laws and not men.