I saw a similar thread on thumpertalk bashing ATVs. And the whole argument is stupid. Maybe there is a distinction between us but to get stuff open we all need to work TOGETHER or else we will never get anywhere.

The real enemies are the tree huggers, the Sierra Club, and other morons that share their agenda. Fight with those guys instead of the dirt bikers because they are the real problem.

 

if you wanna go see the thread the address is http://dirtrider.net/forums3/showthread.php?t=128827

 

I often ride my quad with other dirt bike riders. I haven't seen any conflicts on my rides in CA, NV, UT, or CO.
It appears that most of the hate-talk is occurring on the internet message boards where insecure people feel safe to attack anything that is not their personal preference.
Our real enemies are those against all off-roaders. We need to stick together.

group of us on top of the Rockies

 

Nobody argues who our "enemy" actually is....yet what has finally been brought forward is the fact that our national organizations do absolutely nothing to prevent cyclists from using "ours v.s. theirs" <u>impact</u> issues against us.

I'm sorry, but you can't be an ex-cyclist afraid of 'upsetting' the AMA while (by god) preaching 'togetherness' to the rest of us....when their isn't a damn atver in the history of man who flat out denies access to OUR trails in the manner in which these cyclists now do.(and often times; <u>behind</u> <u>our</u> <u>backs</u> and with a "oh no, we aren't the damn 'land rapers'....they are!).

Furthermore, when ugly issues like what is happening here in Michigan regarding the largest trail system in this country and now new mileage that is flat out un-precedented involving their long-time 'buddies' in the motorcycling community...EVERY DAMN <u>ONE</u> of these national orv leaders start to look down,him-haw/shuffle their feet <u>for</u> <u>a</u> <u>reason</u>.
These "leaders" now safely snuggled in their national non-profit careers...have been yucking it up with these cyclists and their wives all over this country for years (which I don't begrudge and actually appreciate)...never daring to discuss the time when our machines would rule the showroom floor and that any resistance to cooperation on their part would be viewed as the arrogant attitude you so blatantly witness being displayed today.

Question: After all these years and non-profit careers built on the premise that 2-wheeled off-road vehicles are God's gift to the woods and that these machines certainly <u>deserve</u> land set aside for them and them only....which one of these national orv leaders is going to PUBLICLY point out the fact that their 'old cycle buddy' is up here in Michigan holding secret meetings with anonymous individuals or cancelling the public's right to meet with both them and the DNR for 6 months at a time?(right in the middle of cyclists trying to push legislation through that nobody knew a thing about or the single most important orv update plan in the history of this state?).

It's not that some of these cyclists don't like us...it's that finally cooperating with us...ON <u>TRUE</u> MULTI-USE TRAIL SYSTEMS...is a <U>reality</U> that not only potentially 'upsets' their long-time cycle buddies <U>all</U> <U>around</U> <U>this</U> <U>country</U>...but it is a concept which just might threaten their very **livelihoods**.....<U>if</U> the next generation of "we don't care what you bring to the ride; we're just glad to have you and want us to all ride together"...ever figure this nationally led effective 'roadblock' <u>out</u>.

 

The dirt bikes on our local motocross tracks hate quads. They think quads should not be on the track. I think thats stupid quads have the same right as the bikes to be on the track.

 

Old ways, and attitudes die hard.... Those of us who grew up when dirt bikes were the only game in town had our time in the sun, and memories die hard. A macho thing I guess... (Sorry girls, no offense intended) The problem is we are trying to live in the past and re-live the glory days of old.. and maybe we are just a bit too old to change.

I also remember the first ATV's... 3 wheelers back then. What started out as an underpowered novelty, quickly turned into a real killer on wheels... until big brother stepped in and eliminated them with one stroke of the legislative pen. Then we got 4 wheelers.. and for a while, when the power remained resonable, they again became fun machines to kill time with. They were quiet, and for the most part, people ignored them in their local areas. Then enter the size wars, and all heck broke loose. This brought a lot of the manly men bikers into the sport, with their thrill seeking attitudes, and with all that power, they started to tear it up pretty good... (Hey, I include myself in that group) Only trouble was, our antics caught the puplic eye, and because of the injuries we were seeing, and subsequent bad publicity, we became the public enemy number one, with a rep that even the hells angels in their glory days could not match.

Some of us are trying to change all that.. becasue we know that the hooligan element is a minority... but it is something that takes up most of our time trying to live down.

I think the angst between the two groups today revolves around the loss of riding area that dirt bikers have seen over the years... and today they see a resurgence in ridership in the ATV ranks while their ranks become smaller and they see this as a threat to what they have left. Their trails are being taken over by quads... and in many cases, they are being ruined because of the nature of both the quad and the people riding them. This is fuel to the fire as well.

Lastly, states and local governments are under extreme financial presure to get the biggest bang for the buck when it comes to recreational spending, while trying to serve the greatest numbers of people. Again a threat to bikers, because we outnumber them significantly.

Add all this up, and it is no wonder they complain loudly. I can relate to that... BUT, what you do not see very often, is an ATV group resisting to acknowledge their right to ride with us on trails designed for ATVs. This I think is the fundamemntal difference between the groups.

We can spend many hours debating this.. but it will prove fruitless. Our focus should be on strengthening the sport of ATV riding, and let the chips fall where they fall. That is forward thinking.. if the bike crowd wants to tuck in to our slip stream, let them... but right now, I see no reason to waste oxygen and brain cells over their "issues" with ATV's.. whether real or percieved. By sheer numbers, eventually dirt bikes will become strictly a race track only novelty in time, unless you have massive amounts of private land to ride on.

The real kicker, is that in many cases, ATV riders were once dirt bike riders.. and we are seen as traitors to the fold.

Dragginbutt

 

The more I read about these types of discussions on the forums, the happier I am to live in ca. Im beginning to think its the only state that doesnt have a m/c vs quad problem.

Oh and BB, BIG YAWN!!!!! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

 

Same in NY. We are too busy fighting the environmonrontalists and the Sierra Club.

 

I say we start a rumor that the 2 wheelers, along with the AMA, are working with the environmentalists to discredit and eliminate ATV's once and forever and see what sort of reactions we get... Yeah that is pretty far fetched isn't it? Or is it?

We sure have a lot of 2 wheel riders on this list lately putting down ATVs in general, and taking up their own causes. Seems a bit odd don't you think??? Even have admitted 2 wheelers as moderators... hmmmm

Maybe that rumor isn't so far fetched after all.....

 

I think DB nailed it.

Dirt bikes are not allowed on public trails in Northern Wiscosin, at least in none of the counties I'm aware of. If there is no place to ride them, people don't buy them.

They buy ATV's instead, which I'm not sure is necessarily a good thing. Those guys who tore up the golf course strike me as being would be dirt bikers. Judging by some of he damage that's been done to our trails, I suspect they may have been riding around here.

I don't hate dirt bikers. I just think some ATV'ers who think they are being extreme on their old blasters should move up to dirt bikes and ride somewhere else.