<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>"My goodness, "right wing demigogery", "conspiracy theories", it would seem that EEResQ has the Marines and the Army all figured out. I suspect its easier to discount our comments on that basis than to eliminate the obvious case of myopea, open both eyes and see the world for what it is. Knucklehead's will never understand, the concept of enforcement only takes place after there is an issue. Rule and control by fear? I suppose that was an option in Iraq or Viet Nam but not now and definitely not in the USA. Your solution only imprisons, it changes nothing.......Tass"</end quote></div>

Huh?

 

There you go Windtrader.....good post.........Consequence is an excellent term and in retrospect is way more accurate. The road closures in this area total about 5000 and are mostly old logging roads. According to USFS figures there will be about 80 miles of "authorized" trails left, not much to ride on a 2.4 million acre forest. From the standpoint of safety, most of the incidents in this area have taken place on unauthorized trails and also just loading and unloading the machines. In Oregon most accidents do not make the report because they are unlicenced vehicles off of State or County roadways. Untill the reporting method changes there is no way to get an accurate idea of what is happening or how to fix it. Its is seldom one ever sees another rider or group of riders so the chance for good habits and practices to "rub off" on the risk takers is very limited. With the closures though, if they take place, there will definitely be more riders on fewer trails so perhaps it is at that point this osmosis can take place..............Tass

 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Tass

There you go Windtrader.....good post.........Consequence is an excellent term and in retrospect is way more accurate. The road closures in this area total about 5000 and are mostly old logging roads. According to USFS figures there will be about 80 miles of "authorized" trails left, not much to ride on a 2.4 million acre forest. From the standpoint of safety, most of the incidents in this area have taken place on unauthorized trails and also just loading and unloading the machines. In Oregon most accidents do not make the report because they are unlicenced vehicles off of State or County roadways. Untill the reporting method changes there is no way to get an accurate idea of what is happening or how to fix it. Its is seldom one ever sees another rider or group of riders so the chance for good habits and practices to "rub off" on the risk takers is very limited. With the closures though, if they take place, there will definitely be more riders on fewer trails so perhaps it is at that point this osmosis can take place..............Tass</end quote></div>

Where do you live, Tass? Which Forest(s) are you taking about? Have they done the inventory and is it posted?

In terms of reporting serious ATV accidents, you are correct there is no central reporting system(s) in place. I tired quite hard to find the raw statistics on ATV accidents but found a number of different mechanisms in place. I do believe all serious accidents are reported into a system, it is just there are many different ones and different standards for reporting. The reason I believe this is anyone who gets hurt bad enough to be considered a "serious" ATV accident is going to land in a hospital bed. If one can go to the emergency room and walk out, then their injury is not "serious" by definition. The problem is being able to find and tap into the systems and search for ATV related incidents. That is where it gets very complicated and I gave up. Maybe there is a common accident reporting system but this whole subject gets into a very specialized area which I have no clue nor the time/energy to pursue.

Accidents happen on approved trails too. As a matter of fact, we personally experienced two near misses this weekend, both on approved trails. The first was when my son's ATV stalled on a trail, in fairly open woods. A MC can barreling up the trail around a slight corner and nearly hit my son. He swerved at the last moment, going off the trail and bouncing up and around his ATV. Nothing happened but just a slight change in circumstances and it is easy to envision some sort of collision.

The second was when my son was stopped on a trail, looking for cross traffic on the road before crossing. A MC coming down the slippery, muddy, slope behind him tried to stop before hitting him and fell off his bike. Another near miss that could have easily resulted in some contact.

Neither incident would have been serious even if there was contact but being careful and safety conscious still puts a typical ATV rider on a typical ATV ride into harm's way constantly. Even under the best conditions, ATV accidents are going to happen. All we can do is try our best to minimize the stupid, easily avoidable ones, especially the ones involving innocents.

 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: EEResQ

As I too ride, I think I'll render my opinion to this way out in right field statement of yours, Get your S_ _ _ together Marine, and think before you post! </end quote></div>

Perhaps before admonishing him, you should be thanking that same Marine for allowing you to have the freedom to disagree with him.

 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>"Perhaps before admonishing him, you should be thanking that same Marine for allowing you to have the freedom to disagree with him."
Scootergptx</end quote></div>

The admonishment was rendered in terms another Marine would understand. In part, it was motivated by my embarrassment that he would post such total nonsense adjacent to an image of the flag of the United States Marine Corps. Since my response, he has removed the USMC flag icon, replacing it with a comical character of a machine gunner. Good. I would have thought that a Marine with his time in service would show more respect for the Marine Corps flag, and what it represents to all of us who have earned the title United States Marine. I respect his service to our Country and his commitment the Corps, but not his choice to post utter nonsense and a political insult next to its' flowing image.

 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>These younger and inconsiderate riders are hurting themselves and the sport, limiting the sport to these types of riders in a sense and scaring responsible riders away from it,maybe it just wasnt meant for careful riders?</end quote></div>And these are the ones which we can not help. They are not the underage innocents we strive to protect the most. There is little that can be done for raging hormones, machismo in full bloom, and the total belief in self-indestructibility. What you describe occurs in everything the 17-24 year old touches. Auto accidents are the highest among this age group and all we can do is shield ourselves from them as much as possible to minimize the damage they can do to us; forget trying to help that crowd. Most live and grow older and wiser, the unlucky end up as road kill.

 

I believe we are seeing first hand why nothing gets done.... Disagreement is good, as it points out that there are many ways to solve the issue. However when things get personal, or when people close their minds to other opinions, that is when the communication ends.. and we are right back to square one. Is there a middle ground where both can move forward together? I have found when I reach this point, that it is good to take a break for a while.

 

Windtrader,
I live in LaGrande Oregon and the forest I am referring to is the Wallowa Whitman, nothing is posted yet, the process is still ongoing with the oportunities for public involvement and so on. Numerous other forests are also still in the "negotiating" process and drawing up alternatives but many across the nation have already made the decision and closed trails and roads. The end result will be more crowding and the chance for more of the close calls as you related in your post.
In this part of the world self regulation will probably be the order of the day, there is no way enforcement personell can cover the area's involved.........Tass

 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: EEResQ

DeeDawg, your responses are so typical of your personality type.

My "personality type"? You haven't a clue as to who I am. If you are taking a single web site as to my "personality type", then perhaps I should assume that since you are from Kentucky that your parents are also brother and sister, and that you enjoy carnal knowledge of sheep.

Instead of personal attacks on me, how about addressing the topic that I wrote of? It seems to me that there are others in here that agree with me. Perhaps you should look at my original paragraph is a long list of excuses from the left as to why we should eliminate our sport rather than a reason to make a personal attack.

As a Marine, I know first hand the rights that we have that others do no have. One of those rights is to my opinions, regardless if you agree with me or not. I will continue to fly the flag for as long as I see fit. So go ahead, make another personal attack on me, Tass, or whomever - it's the those on the left do best.

 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: EEResQ

"DeeDawg, your responses are so typical of your personality type."</end quote></div>
Thank you for proving my point, again.

However, your recent post are so far off topic they only serve to derail the meaningful discussions here. Of course, seizing control of everything within your realm, and attacking those who dare to confront you, is part of the personality type too. Did you make it to Sick Call this morning?

BTW: Does HQMC approve of Marines who display the USMC flag while posting personal insults and other nonsense on line? Does "Conduct unbecoming..." ring a bell?

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>My "personality type"? You haven't a clue as to who I am.
DeeDawg</end quote></div>
Oh, that was the easy question. The hard one is this:

Why do you continue to disgrace the banner of the Corps you purport to be a proud member of?

Now, can we get back on topic here...