Stupid Kills? or What can the ATV community do to reduce the number of serious injuries?
Jan 10, 2007 | 07:59 PM
#51
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Is old enough to know better, but too young to stop.
Is old enough to know better, but too young to stop.
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From: Northern Virginia, near DC
Stupid Kills? or What can the ATV community do to reduce the number of serious injuries?
I hear ya. I stopped reading the kids area because all you would see is parents wanting to know how to make their kid's machines faster, faster faster.. gotta go faster... Johnny down the street beats my kid every time they "race". You know the 6 year old in the yellow house.... some time later, you see the cars around the house from all the friends and neighbors paying their respects to the poor parents after they get back from his funeral... Darned ATV's, they are soo dangerous... Why didn't someone tell me this before I bought it? Yeah sure, it is the ATV's fault... right...
If it sounds like I am bitter.. well I am. For every person we try to enlighten, there are 100 who think we are kooks. I am just tired of the sensless slaughter. This 2 year old really put me over the edge... Sorry if I drag you down. But just think about the number of kids youu see without helmets, without chest protectors, neck rolls, gloves, eye protection, heck even long pants and shoes over the ankle. If you find them, chances are you find a parent nearby that they are emulating. Talk about bad examples. How are you gonna defeat that?
Let me tell you, if you can't afford riding safety classes, or can't afford the safety gear, or don't want to sit there and monitor your kids riding... get them into something else... Stay away from ATVs. Give them Karate lessons, maybe then they can beat some sense into you. For those that think riding gear is too expensive. Ever pay for a funeral? Ever priced the gear your normal kids Hockey player goes through in a season? How about paid for emergency room visits, or ambulance rides. You add it all up, and that $100 helment doesn't sound too bad.
Nope, slackers are not going to get any sympathy from me. Not until I do not read any more death reports of kids born to stupid parents. Sometimes LOVE means you say NO!
If it sounds like I am bitter.. well I am. For every person we try to enlighten, there are 100 who think we are kooks. I am just tired of the sensless slaughter. This 2 year old really put me over the edge... Sorry if I drag you down. But just think about the number of kids youu see without helmets, without chest protectors, neck rolls, gloves, eye protection, heck even long pants and shoes over the ankle. If you find them, chances are you find a parent nearby that they are emulating. Talk about bad examples. How are you gonna defeat that?
Let me tell you, if you can't afford riding safety classes, or can't afford the safety gear, or don't want to sit there and monitor your kids riding... get them into something else... Stay away from ATVs. Give them Karate lessons, maybe then they can beat some sense into you. For those that think riding gear is too expensive. Ever pay for a funeral? Ever priced the gear your normal kids Hockey player goes through in a season? How about paid for emergency room visits, or ambulance rides. You add it all up, and that $100 helment doesn't sound too bad.
Nope, slackers are not going to get any sympathy from me. Not until I do not read any more death reports of kids born to stupid parents. Sometimes LOVE means you say NO!
Jan 10, 2007 | 11:50 PM
#52
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Stupid Kills? or What can the ATV community do to reduce the number of serious injuries?
Originally posted by: Dragginbutt
My only complaint with the ASI training is that it is tied to the CPSC guidelines with regard to age versus motor size. My complaint, and of others as well, has always been the CPSC guidelines that were created way back in time are a little long in the tooth so to speak. There is a need for a re-evaluation on the size versus age issue. Case in point. Our kids are "Bigger" that they were back when. That means that an 11 year old today, is probably larger than a 12 or 13 year old when the CPSC first published it's guide. If you look at my 11 year old, who is 5'6", and pushing 140.. and place him on a 50, which is all he can legally ride according to them, I would be putting him in danger because sitting on that little machine would put his knees above his hips. Both uncomfortable, and risky if he needed to jump off, etc. The industry, has NOT kep pace with building a slightly larger framed machine. I have no isse with engine size, only that the small engines only come on the micro machines and they are not big enough for him. Hence, I bought him a Raptor 80 that better fits his body size. He is too big for that too, but I do not want to go overboard with motor.
The ASI trainer will not train him because of the age versus Engine size. SO, I have a Raptor 80 that is 4 years old, that I have not run a full tank of gas through because of the catch 22 situatuation. July 2n'd this year, and we will be legal, and on our way to hatfield McCoy for a legal ride. I refuse to have him lie about his age... as that would not be teaching him what I want him to learn about honesty etc....
There really needs to be a review of the guidelines. I heard there was one in teh works, but I haven't heard anything about that in some time.
My only complaint with the ASI training is that it is tied to the CPSC guidelines with regard to age versus motor size. My complaint, and of others as well, has always been the CPSC guidelines that were created way back in time are a little long in the tooth so to speak. There is a need for a re-evaluation on the size versus age issue. Case in point. Our kids are "Bigger" that they were back when. That means that an 11 year old today, is probably larger than a 12 or 13 year old when the CPSC first published it's guide. If you look at my 11 year old, who is 5'6", and pushing 140.. and place him on a 50, which is all he can legally ride according to them, I would be putting him in danger because sitting on that little machine would put his knees above his hips. Both uncomfortable, and risky if he needed to jump off, etc. The industry, has NOT kep pace with building a slightly larger framed machine. I have no isse with engine size, only that the small engines only come on the micro machines and they are not big enough for him. Hence, I bought him a Raptor 80 that better fits his body size. He is too big for that too, but I do not want to go overboard with motor.
The ASI trainer will not train him because of the age versus Engine size. SO, I have a Raptor 80 that is 4 years old, that I have not run a full tank of gas through because of the catch 22 situatuation. July 2n'd this year, and we will be legal, and on our way to hatfield McCoy for a legal ride. I refuse to have him lie about his age... as that would not be teaching him what I want him to learn about honesty etc....
There really needs to be a review of the guidelines. I heard there was one in teh works, but I haven't heard anything about that in some time.
Even though I believe those at the CPSC mean well they have obviously made some errors, and these need to be corrected.
I guess if you give it enough thought the very fact that there is a legal issue involved just complicates the problem when figuring just what size or model is the right choice if none of the models being considered is of the legal engine size due to fitment problems.
Maybe if the CPSC created guidlines that were more inline with real life situations there could be a few fatalities that would have only been serious injuries.
On a side note I would have had a laugh trying to ride a 90 at 15 because I was over 200lb and at 16 was even more than I weigh now [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]
Damn that would have been funny
Jan 11, 2007 | 12:07 AM
#53
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Stupid Kills? or What can the ATV community do to reduce the number of serious injuries?
Originally posted by: Dragginbutt
Now if we could just do something about the stupid parents. Last weekend, a local parent in Charles county Maryland put his 2 year old on an ATV and turned them loose. The funeral is later this week. Article didn't say what size it was.. it did say the kid had a helmet... but DUH, what the heck were they thinking?
Minimum age is 6 years old folks... Local news in DC did a great job of saying that they need to be six, and then put some "EXPERT" on that wants to limit riding to 16 and above. They also go into the "we called the manufacturer, but did not get a response etc..".
Well, folks, you can't blame the ATV. If it were not for the fact that the parents have enough to deal with this week burying their child, I'd lock them up for child abuse, child endangerment etc. That is just plain irresponsible.
STUPID kills. Unfortunately the child could not comprehend that mommy and daddy would NEVER put them in danger, or do anything that would hurt them right?
I don't know if I want to be mad, or just sit down and cry. Somebody has to do it for the child. Somebody has to stop this. I love ATV's.. they are what keeps me living, and getting up in the morning. I go to bed thinking about them, I read ATV magazines when I am in the bathroom doing my daily... Heck I wear jerseys like t-shirts... But I'd get rid of all of them today if I could just get that one kid back..... Just one.. .I am not greedy. Why does God let stupid people breed? I don't get it.
Now if we could just do something about the stupid parents. Last weekend, a local parent in Charles county Maryland put his 2 year old on an ATV and turned them loose. The funeral is later this week. Article didn't say what size it was.. it did say the kid had a helmet... but DUH, what the heck were they thinking?
Minimum age is 6 years old folks... Local news in DC did a great job of saying that they need to be six, and then put some "EXPERT" on that wants to limit riding to 16 and above. They also go into the "we called the manufacturer, but did not get a response etc..".
Well, folks, you can't blame the ATV. If it were not for the fact that the parents have enough to deal with this week burying their child, I'd lock them up for child abuse, child endangerment etc. That is just plain irresponsible.
STUPID kills. Unfortunately the child could not comprehend that mommy and daddy would NEVER put them in danger, or do anything that would hurt them right?
I don't know if I want to be mad, or just sit down and cry. Somebody has to do it for the child. Somebody has to stop this. I love ATV's.. they are what keeps me living, and getting up in the morning. I go to bed thinking about them, I read ATV magazines when I am in the bathroom doing my daily... Heck I wear jerseys like t-shirts... But I'd get rid of all of them today if I could just get that one kid back..... Just one.. .I am not greedy. Why does God let stupid people breed? I don't get it.
I think this story is pretty much like so many others. Its just a combination of bad decisions, and some seriously bad luck. I cant say what may have caused this to happen differently, and I guess you could look at everything from this 2 yr olds grandparents using birth control to investing even more countless bazillions of dollars into our education system, but the one thing I cant figure is anyway the atv could have been manufactured differently to prevent something like this.
In all honesty I cringe everytime I read or hear about something like this (part of the reason I finally started this thread) but my emotions quickly do change to disbelief of how stupid the parents could be, and then to anger from the even more ignorant approach to blaming the machine for something that was the obvious result of some seriously wrong decisions by someone. I mean even if they left out one little thing like not starting the engine, or not allowing any small child to operate anything unsupervised this could or may have been avoided.
Lastly I have even become both amused and enraged when I see how the govt is seemingly trying to fix the problems created by their big brother approach to trying to legislate our safetly and everyday actions with even larger doses of this mind crumbling drug. It seems that somehow the more were forced to be safe and our govt takes the reigns on how we should live to be more safe etc that more and more people are unable to think for themselves and totally mess of their or someone elses life.
Maybe if we go back to the ways of our grand or great grandfathers where men accepted responsibility for the actions and screwups etc and get away from all the total BS lawsuits and expecting our govt to legislate our safety people would go back to spending some time to think things out before just jumping in head first like they have a safety net.
Jan 11, 2007 | 12:10 AM
#54
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Stupid Kills? or What can the ATV community do to reduce the number of serious injuries?
Can someone make this a sticky in the mini atv section?
I think it pretty much sums it up pretty well, and thumbs up again draggin.
Let me tell you, if you can't afford riding safety classes, or can't afford the safety gear, or don't want to sit there and monitor your kids riding... get them into something else... Stay away from ATVs. Give them Karate lessons, maybe then they can beat some sense into you. For those that think riding gear is too expensive. Ever pay for a funeral? Ever priced the gear your normal kids Hockey player goes through in a season? How about paid for emergency room visits, or ambulance rides. You add it all up, and that $100 helment doesn't sound too bad.
Nope, slackers are not going to get any sympathy from me. Not until I do not read any more death reports of kids born to stupid parents. Sometimes LOVE means you say NO!
I think it pretty much sums it up pretty well, and thumbs up again draggin.
Let me tell you, if you can't afford riding safety classes, or can't afford the safety gear, or don't want to sit there and monitor your kids riding... get them into something else... Stay away from ATVs. Give them Karate lessons, maybe then they can beat some sense into you. For those that think riding gear is too expensive. Ever pay for a funeral? Ever priced the gear your normal kids Hockey player goes through in a season? How about paid for emergency room visits, or ambulance rides. You add it all up, and that $100 helment doesn't sound too bad.
Nope, slackers are not going to get any sympathy from me. Not until I do not read any more death reports of kids born to stupid parents. Sometimes LOVE means you say NO!
Jan 11, 2007 | 03:32 PM
#56
Never make a decision before you have to, always have a Plan B, and don't tell me it's not possible!
Joined: Jan 2007
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From: Toronto
Stupid Kills? or What can the ATV community do to reduce the number of serious injuries?
Don't be fooled by these numbers. They don't control for the amount of time spent in a car vs. on an ATV.
The real question is, how much are people at risk driving an ATV for a couple of hours versus being in a car for a couple of hours. We spend MUCH more time in vehicles, so the ATV's are clearly still more dangerous.
The real question is, how much are people at risk driving an ATV for a couple of hours versus being in a car for a couple of hours. We spend MUCH more time in vehicles, so the ATV's are clearly still more dangerous.
Jan 11, 2007 | 04:00 PM
#57
Never make a decision before you have to, always have a Plan B, and don't tell me it's not possible!
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From: Toronto
Stupid Kills? or What can the ATV community do to reduce the number of serious injuries?
I hear you Dragginbut, and if it makes you feel any better about ATVs, the parents of that 2 year-old were probably an accident waiting to happen. I wouldn't be surprised if they did a lot of other stupid things as well, such as not wearing seatbelts, perhaps even no carseat for the child, etc.. There are a lot of people in the world, and so you are going to get nuts, killers, and who knows what, just due to sheer probablilities. So I think it's important not to overgeneralize from such weird single instances of incredible stupidity.
At the same time, I agree that there are WAY too many irresponsible parents out there who do not get involved in what their kids are doing, or who leave their kids alone in dangerous situations unsupervised. My daugher has been driving ATVs since she was 7, but NEVER without me right at her side, and not before she took an all day course, and not before I went through the ATV Safety Institute checklist with her. Moreover, she absolutely refused to even sit on a 90 cc when we bought her Arctic Cat DVX 50, so she knows the rules and sticks to them.
Due to traditional sex roles, I suppose it is easier to get female kids to follow the rules, but I also believe that fathers are terrible at discouraging the macho, go faster-and-faster attitude that I believe is behing so many injuries. Until that part of the culture is changed, we will continue to see deaths in the primary risk group, namely male children on bikes that are too big/fast for them.
At the same time, I agree that there are WAY too many irresponsible parents out there who do not get involved in what their kids are doing, or who leave their kids alone in dangerous situations unsupervised. My daugher has been driving ATVs since she was 7, but NEVER without me right at her side, and not before she took an all day course, and not before I went through the ATV Safety Institute checklist with her. Moreover, she absolutely refused to even sit on a 90 cc when we bought her Arctic Cat DVX 50, so she knows the rules and sticks to them.
Due to traditional sex roles, I suppose it is easier to get female kids to follow the rules, but I also believe that fathers are terrible at discouraging the macho, go faster-and-faster attitude that I believe is behing so many injuries. Until that part of the culture is changed, we will continue to see deaths in the primary risk group, namely male children on bikes that are too big/fast for them.
Jan 11, 2007 | 04:43 PM
#58
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Stupid Kills? or What can the ATV community do to reduce the number of serious injuries?
I think those regulations can actualy be more dangerous. My ex has a 10 year old who is 5-1 and 105 lbs. There was no way we were going to put him on an 80! Too small for him and unsafe for his size.
We instead went with a dirtbike. That way we were able to sensibly choose what size machine was best for him without some stupid outdated government regulation to tell us what was OK.
We instead went with a dirtbike. That way we were able to sensibly choose what size machine was best for him without some stupid outdated government regulation to tell us what was OK.
Jan 11, 2007 | 05:00 PM
#59
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Stupid Kills? or What can the ATV community do to reduce the number of serious injuries?
http://www.adaeveningnews.com/local/...009122958.html
Just thought I would add this tragedy and good information of this article to this thread...
It is a sad but informative article...Ada is in southern Oklahoma....For me personally, that was
the deal I made with the wife when I started riding at the "tender" age of 39(4 years ago)..
I ride, I wear a helmet, period...Also, learned how to ride and handle diff. types of ATV's from several
experienced riders I ahve ridden with over the years..I don't think any training course could replace that education...
It breaks my heart(and I'm not a tree huggin' liberal, I'm a staunch conversative born and raised in Texas) to
see how many kids and adults ride with reckless abandon and no safety gear...Then that horrible feeling you get when you see a life flight helicopter
or ambulance show up to rescue these daredevils...Now that I have ridden for a few years, I ride
a "souped up" sport bike(Z400 w/ mods)...But I also realize how dangerous a machine it is...
Education and respect are two of the most important things to help you ride as safely as possible..
I just hope more kids and adults learn and/or acquire these valuable concepts...They are not exactly in "abundant
supply" these days....
Just thought I would add this tragedy and good information of this article to this thread...
It is a sad but informative article...Ada is in southern Oklahoma....For me personally, that was
the deal I made with the wife when I started riding at the "tender" age of 39(4 years ago)..
I ride, I wear a helmet, period...Also, learned how to ride and handle diff. types of ATV's from several
experienced riders I ahve ridden with over the years..I don't think any training course could replace that education...
It breaks my heart(and I'm not a tree huggin' liberal, I'm a staunch conversative born and raised in Texas) to
see how many kids and adults ride with reckless abandon and no safety gear...Then that horrible feeling you get when you see a life flight helicopter
or ambulance show up to rescue these daredevils...Now that I have ridden for a few years, I ride
a "souped up" sport bike(Z400 w/ mods)...But I also realize how dangerous a machine it is...
Education and respect are two of the most important things to help you ride as safely as possible..
I just hope more kids and adults learn and/or acquire these valuable concepts...They are not exactly in "abundant
supply" these days....
Jan 11, 2007 | 05:14 PM
#60
Never make a decision before you have to, always have a Plan B, and don't tell me it's not possible!
Joined: Jan 2007
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From: Toronto
Stupid Kills? or What can the ATV community do to reduce the number of serious injuries?
Hey, 4wheel4food, if you really believe that, you could start by removing the phrase "if you ain't scared you aint riding hard enough"
