It was the biggest leadership debacle in the history of motorized sports here in Michigan and one which left but a few good organizations up there in the UP trying to save the whole darn thing while their counterparts downstate concentrated sparse resources on the search for a selfishly driven big city riding area; riding the sides of LP roads (of all things); and the creation of 750 more miles down here that pale in comparison with what we lost quickly up there.

It's just plain 'ol crappy leadership, folks..... and you merely have to call the local USFS managers up there to find out just who got involved with saving that area and why the yoopers (again) got the short end of the stick when it came to sticker dollars and competent downstate orv leadership supporting the resource. The people up there respect the professionally run WATVA and what is 'out in the open' being done in WI one heck of a lot more than the term-expired secretive and outright arrogant leadership that we have down here...and they should, IMO.

 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: check

Thankfully, I haven't heard of any closures here in Canada yet, and in Ontario, more trails are being mapped and opened up all the time.</end quote></div>

I read somewhere you spend almost the same as eating out as you do on orv's. As a whole. Its over a few billion a year, I think I may move to Canada.... aay?

 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: DietMtDew

buckaroo 50, Chicklips01, Tass, Muddy4life, I understand where you all are coming from but living in a large city ( Columbus Oh ) and being to busy to ride as much as I want to, getting physically involved is difficult at least, but if there is a way I can help with this particular issue please let me know. Our National Forest for riding here is Wayne and from talking to some of my friends that ride down there the money that the state makes from registrations will probably keep the closing issue on the back burner for a while, plus the law authorities ( Game Wardens, Sheriffs etc. ) are pretty active in keeping the idiots ( can I say that on here ) in control. Also we are only about 4 to 6 hours from the Hatfield and McCoy Trail system in West Virginia and talk about a place that embraces ATV's, heck there are times you can even see the Govenor of West Virginia riding the system. So if the good riders can keep the bad riders under control maybe the old saying " Money talks and BS walks " will come into play because ATVers can spend alot of money for a good time.</end quote></div>

I would prabably spent a ton of money in trips to other states and within my own state to visit anything for orv's, like camping with miles of trails, and what have you. NJ has one orv park (Chatsworth) (which I've been to) with a 6 mile trail, that just stinks, and four tracks, one beginner, intermediate, One track for ATV's, and the Motorcross track, you can ride both (bikes and atv's) on the intermediate, but it out right stinks, $300.00+ for membership, for what? Thats gonna close soon I hear too, so I'll save that for gas money.

So I guess my whole state is idiots, cause everyone here gets popped for riding, because we have no place to go, I refuse to get caught, like many others, so I run. Either that or pay thousands in fines and lose my machine(s).

 

blackballed...........They are asking for no increased budget. If they can close down the ML1 and ML2 roads they eliminate the costs they have now in what they term maintainance.
This is a closure to all motorized use......ALL MOTORIZED USE. Not a good guy of bad buy issue, not a resource issue, just a plain ol stay the hell out closure.
I have been using these public lands for over 60 years, There is the opportunity to anyone reading this to use the address I listed in another post and let the forest service know how you feel about the closure of public land. This is not an issue of illegaly riding on someones private property, This is public ground.
If folks would respond to the forest service there could be some hope....Tass

 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Tass

blackballed...........They are asking for no increased budget. If they can close down the ML1 and ML2 roads they eliminate the costs they have now in what they term maintainance.....Tass</end quote></div>

I guess that I equate the situation in these national forests to what has been happening in the Appalachias and how the Hatfield McCoy system finally rectified this.
Private land...public land....it doesn't matter; as the basic premise is the same.

Folks ran all over the mountains down south with absolutely no regulation whatsoever (still do) until the landowners (substitute our govt. here) finally had enough of it and decided to take back control of their land (or our land in terms of the travel management rule).
Since there was absolutely no organized effort to properly set these lands up or steward them professionally and on the contrary nasty overtures from the orv so-called 'community' to prevent any and all efforts to responsibly "pay-to-play"....the H/M authority rightfully rammed this truly groundbreaking concept right down our immature spoiled throats.

I support the travel management rule because at least in Michigan; poor and unprofessional leadership has allowed this community to be viewed as incapable of managing even the land outside these forests; let alone the land they didn't want to pay to ride in the forests themselves.

$16.25 per year for years to ride the largest maintained system in the nation...money that that didn't even cover much of the land that they are now about to shut down?

Give me a break, guys....and ask yourself why nobody with an ounce of professionalism has been willing to step in over the years and proudly partner with the bozos we have in there leading us right now.

 

TASS,
You are correct in regards to the National Forest lands, it is a huge loss. However, Michigan is expanding their current 3000 miles of trails with another added 800 miles of trails in the near future. We also have HB 4323 that will allow most counties in the north the authority to allow ORV use on the shoulders of their County roadways at speeds of under 25mph, during daylight hrs.

In March of this year, this HB 4323 already passed the House with a favored vote of 107-0...It now sits in the Senate waiting for approval. If passed, HB 4323 will be HUGE for Michigan ORV operators. We will now have access to fuel, resturants, motels ect without the worry of some sicko LEO giving us a hard time.The real only opposition we received was from the DNR..They provided false accident data to County board members with regards to ORV data that never exsisted.BUT, we were there to set the record straight.

Im not wooried about Michigan too much because we have some pretty good ORV leaders that are watching things very close,and the DNR are NOW well aware of this.

 

So it sounds it is ok with the ORV leaders in MI that the USFS is closing National Forest lands to ALL MOTORIZED USE??
Does this sound ok to you?

Tass, I sent an email to wwnf_travel_mgt_plan@fs.fed.us opposing the banning of ALL MOTORIZED USE.

 

[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif[/img]I just went back through all the posts and re-read them and took some notes. I believe I am not making the issue in this part of the world clear. I read that Michigan and other areas have great tracts of State land and even some private land that is available for activities even if most of the Federal managed public ground is shut down. It is obvious that in the Eastern portion of the US the reliance on Federal managed public ground is not the same as it is here.
There are repeated comments about the destruction or impact from masses of riders that have no consideration for themselves or the resources or ownership.
########################
The road closures here are taking place on Federal managed public ground. YOU OWN IT,
You and I as citizens of the US own the ground in question and the motorized use taking place is legal and in accordance with environmental rules..
There is little or no option for state, county, or private to be substituted for this Federaly managed, publicly owned land.
There are not the masses of riders here that are described in other posts about other areas. The impact on the ground and to the resources is almost non-existant. I have repeatedly asked the USFS for locations to view or photo's to examine. They have none and know of none.
The roads and access about to be shut down have been built in accordance with environmental rules of the time and were built to support up to 150,000 lbs of load in almost any weather condition.
This proposed closure has nothing to do with poor leadership, trash on the ground, ruts in the creeks, noise, masses of riders fighting with hikers or with other users, it has nothing to do with trespass, or conflict with towns, highways, or policemen. The largest town in this 40,000 square mile corner of the state is LaGrande Oregon with about 12000 total population. The next largest town is about 50 miles West with about 10000 population and another is located 55 miles SE from here.
##########################
This is the issue......the Federal government is about to deny motorized access TO YOU, the legitimate owner of the ground because Dale Bosworth, former chief of the USFS, decided 2 years ago it was a good thing to do.
There are those that choose to just roll over and let the Federal government take away their options and choices.....I am not one of those citizens. I hope some that read this regardless of what state they might be in will excercise their right as a US citizen and legal owner of the Wallowa-Whitman to send a message to the address I listed in another post and express their views relating to the lock up of public ground and the lockout of citizens...............Tass




3

 

[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]motorsports.
I cannot express how much I appreciate your involvement, The Wallowa-Whitman is yours, you own it as a US citizen.......No one should have the power to even try to keep you from using what is yours.
Input like yours might possibly open up some door for you children and grandchildren in the future. Input like yours might possibly open up some door for MY CHILDREN AND GRANDCHILDREN in the future.
I just watched a program on PBS about the revolution that sent King George packing. It was individuals like you, motorsports, that sounded off, banded together, and took action to make things right..............again..Thank you so much..........Tass

 

No mention of orv leader or even community involvement in shaping these travel management rules was ever made during the entire process beyond one sentance in the orv advisory board meeting minutes describing USFS pamphlets being handed out on the subject. As in the orv plan update process; new trail mileage and disposition of the orv fund millions just released in last November's elections...processes that went on for a very similiar amount of time (literally years)....no community held positions were ever publicized on any facet of these issues and frankly never will be.(I mean, c'mon...even the leader's identities itself has been a bragged about secret for how long now?).

If you would quote the portion of my post that caused you to ask this question; it would be appreciated; as we already have at least one orv leader who has admitted that the process truly lacked the kind of cooperation that would've led to a more successful outcome.

By the way, guys; these areas aren't "closing"....they are already CLOSED and that is why these token workshops this winter where public questions of these people weren't even allowed on the meeting agendas....were in some instances nothing but dog and pony shows presented well after the fact.

Believe me, I hate to have been one of the few who has actually kept up on these events as they have occured...but the true story needs to be told and it actually shouldn't be forgotten when we all come across these 'closed' signs from now on.