Another posting reports controversy over allowing ATV's on railroad beds that have been converted to trails. Some people want to ban all motorized traffic on those trails and reserve them solely for non-motorized uses. I'm wondering what these people are thinking? Railroad beds were designed and built for motorized traffic. They tend to be straight and level with wide, cleared rights of way. Almost anyplace you can think of is better for non-motorized uses than railroad beds. Around here, you seldom if ever see anyone hiking or mountain biking on the railroad bed. If it wasn't for ATV's and snowmobiles, that trail wouldn't get enough use to justify having it.

I know that in land use planning, the widely accepted practice is to look at "highest and best use." This practice is followed by most government agencies. Maybe it would be a good strategy for ATV'ers to bring that up when some agency is considering caving to the non-motorized crowd.

 

Deep,

It seems it's usuallly the ATV and snowmobile communities that initiate the conversation and planning. How can they legitimately pull the plug on off-road machines? Can't see it happening..... Like you said, the non-motorized crowd can't justify this expense. Somebody like a lawyer needs to speak for your group. They have to be challenged and they must be shown the multii-use successes in other regions around the country. Are there any "failures" due to single use? Failure in the sense that it was really expensive to build and nobody uses the trails.....

The last meeting I went to involved Green Mountain National Forest planning and the ATV guys could hardly get a single coherent thought across in an organized public forum. It was shame to watch. I understand they weren't lawyers, and the situation is intimidating for laymen, but they sure did seem to need one. I hate to say it, but it was a pretty bad showing and they got very little of their requests though.....simply because they didn't make a coherent argument. It didn't even makes sense to me, forget to the local officials and the federal biologists / planners. Basicallly they said, "we want to make a trail here", with no maps, no alternative, offered no funding or assistance to complete the project, and no plan to "police" the new trail to keep people on it through the sensitive areas around trout streams. They had nothing and couldn't answer any questions.

My feeling is, (from experience in Vermont) the ATV crowd is woefully unorganized. -Hopefully this is different in other parts of the country though. Would be good if others can chime in and describe their honest level or organization and power withing their respective states- So this is in direct contrast to the snowmobile crowd. They are extremely organized and powerful. The ATV community has got to get better organized. I believe part of it is that a large number of ATV riders are "kids", as opposed to relatively well-off adult snowmobilers who would drop whatever they're doing to vigorously defend the sport. I guess you have to consider it's a much older organization too. Snowmobiles have been around a lot longer than 4-wheelers. Regardless, it would be in the best interest of both groups if they could join forces. There are a lot of challenges there that would need to be addressed and I'm not sure it's possible....such as time of year, seeming lack of concern for ATVs on the snowmobilers part, trail systems in common and dollars allocated to each. Seems the ATV guys need the snowmobile guys were than the snowmobile guys need the ATV guys. ATV guys could offer a lot of maintenance assistance to the snowmobile guys in the warm months. I know there a a lot of guys that ride both, but not the numbers necessary IMO. I'm always surprised how separated they are in mindset. -They have a lot more in common than not.

 

Deep,

Just wanted to add that "highest and best use" is more of state factor than a federal one. Federal lands don't use this criteria specifically. Sometimes (often) certain factors outweigh highest and best use. This goes for state lands too. There's just so many variables and sometimes there's a gotcha in there that kills the deal. For instance, you might need to cross some habitat, or swing toward a development that's protected by state, federal or local laws that simply makes the project illegal. from the get go. -So "highest and best use" makes total sense and is a great strategy, but you can't take it as THE defining factor. I'd say consider it a big hammer in your toolbox.

The new Maine rails to trails project up north now has some funky legal issues based on private land owners looking to take back abandoned lands by the rail lines. Now that's scarier than any environmental issues IMO. Who knows if it will go anywhere, but it's concerning for sure. I'm all for private land ownership and rights, but to come in and now lay claim to something that's been controlled by others for the last 150 years is something else altogether. -I've got an article that was sent to me by another member here describing the situation,.If anybody wants to read it, I can attach it to this post.

 

I grew up in NJ riding the railroad trails...... We all road on the NJ Transit tracks for year and years.....But back in the late 80s and early 90s they started blocking us, and taking away the dirt and covering it with giant rocks, putting up guard rails, and all sorts of things...... It became almost impossible to ride in many areas we had used for years. And now they are almost all gone.....

I'm moved out of NJ is 2002 and now talking to my buddies who ride there now, they don't even bother anymore. All the old trails are gone and NJ Transit is happy.

 

SS,

So we're talkin' abandoned tracks here that are ripped up and replaced with trails. -I'm sure you realize that...... -I gotta say, I can see why the train folks don't want kids on dirt bikes riding along side active tracks Safety and legal issues outweigh fun these days.

 

Yeah I know what you mean.......

The tracks we used to ride on were mostly abandoned too. We would use the side of the beds on some of the current tracks a but mostly everything was old......

But it was still NJ Transit property and they did not want us there anymore..... One too many injuries and incidents I suppose for the modern world.

So what NJ Transit did, to keep us off abandoned rails, they built them back up and used them to store trains. The would park the idle trains there, and some of the NJT trucks etc...etc.. And even those ones that were left, they put up guard rails to stop us.....

Today, there are still a few places people ride but nothing like it used to be. Now they are used as more of a gateway to get from place to place.

As you said, no reason they cannot stay as trails but modern America has no place for ATVers it seems.....

 

One of the most productive arguments is the revenue that an ATVer brings with him/her. Claremont, NH opened up the railtrail on the main drag to ATVers and now gets revenue from the gas station, fast food restaurants, etc. along the way. I've spent over $40 per day on rides between fuel and food. Multiply that out by how many riders get attracted to an area. Berlin, NH is a town way up in the northern area that lost revenue when paper mills began closing left and right. They are now working on an ATV park that already has 50 or so miles of trails in picturesque settings. They are aiming for 120 miles with a snack bar and a campground also. They can attract the riders and their money.

 

Yep, that's why the non-motorized crowd will get nowhere if anybody with any sense is on the commission. I've ridden my sled over in Claremont on those trails.....they are very popular. I guess I need to check out the Berlin area. It sounds like a fun ride.

 

Cool. Wasn't sure if you were talking about active rail tracks with hourly trains Yeah, it's too bad. That same thing happened all over the country over a course of 20 years. Nobody wants to get sued.

 

The trails near my house are old rail beds and are great. Sad thing is that these young kids have completely destroyed the area with graffiti and trenches dug with their father's Arctic Cat 1000's and piped out 660 Raptors... I was riding my quad down one today and went across a mud hold that looked dry and my quad sank almost thigh deep... grrr

What I am getting at is that people take advantage of it, mess it up and get hurt. Sometimes it's more logical for them to post it than to regulate it.