The man knows his American history. Gifford Pinchot was an awesome individual. The father of the conservation movement. We're headed down to North Carolina next month to check out some of his early work at the Biltmore Mansion. Looking forward to it. Wish I could bring my ATV!

 

Have studied a little bit FunRide.

-------------------------------------------------------------
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Moscow, ID
Posts: 142


Attention Everyone!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This isn't the first we have heard of this proposed act but I got an e-mail today saying there is going to be a meeting for it on the 5th of May here is what the e-mail said:


Subject: Re: NREPA hearing scheduled -- spread the word

All,
During the omnibus fight, one of the groups BRC worked with was AMA
(American Motorcyclist Association). In addition to their first-rate
D.C. based staff, I worked with Nick Haris, AMA's Western rep. Nick and
I worked on a variety of things, including press relations and providing
"friendly" congressional staff with facts and info they could use.

Nick and I quickly realized that one thing our community needs to
improve on is personalizing the loss of recreational access. Put a face
on the closures, so to speak.

Nick and the gang at AMA have volunteered to collect specific examples
of areas and trails that will be lost if NREPA is passed. I was hopeful
you all would also consider this a worthwhile effort, and consider this
a "URGENT INFO CALL."

To be of most use to BRC and AMA's reps in D.C., the motorized and
mountain bike uses should be approved by the current management plan,
with extra credit for areas with designated trail systems or groomed
snowmobile trails. Pics of responsible riders with smiling faces also
useful.

We will have time to compile information, but we'll need to collect some
good examples by the May 5th hearing. Maps are here.
http://www.wildrockiesalliance.org/i...mapIndex.shtml

Please call Nick or me if you need additional info.

Thanks!
Brian H.
208-390-5770

Nick Haris
530-626-4250

There are a lot of areas that could get closed down if the bill passes!!!!
__________________

 

Testimony yesterday From Mt. Rep Denney Rehberg,who represents many in this bills crosshairs




Rehberg 1
Testimony of Congressman Denny Rehberg (MT-At Large)
Opposing the Northern Rockies Ecosystem Protection Act
Tuesday, May 05, 2009
Committee on Natural Resources
Subcommittee on National Parks, Forests and Public Lands

Chairman Grijalva, Ranking Member Bishop, thanks for allowing me to return to
the Subcommittee on National Parks, Forests and Public Lands to testify again on behalf
of the people of Montana.

I’m here representing county commissioners, state representatives, ranchers,
timber workers, sportsmen and women and recreationalists who have expressed their
opposition to the Northern Rockies Ecosystem Protection Act in letters, faxes, emails,
survey responses and even a rapidly growing Facebook group. All told, I’ve heard from
almost 10,000 folks who live in the Northern Rockies – who consider the land at issue in
the legislation we are discussing today to be their home. It’s where they live, work and
raise a family.
I’m here to report that more than 96% of us who live in these areas oppose this
bill. In my years of public service – beginning in the state legislature, then as Montana’s
Lieutenant Governor and now as the sole Representative in the House, I can think of few
subjects that have evoked such a unified opposition.
If Congress wants to, it can ignore these concerns and pass NREPA without their
consent and without a single vote from any of their Congressional Representatives. The
land NREPA federalizes is represented by only 7 Members of Congress including myself;
far fewer than the 72 current cosponsors of the bill. Congress can just say it’s
inconvenient that none of those 72 cosponsors are from the districts that NREPA impacts.
Recently, Congress passed the Omnibus Lands Act, which created over 2 million
acres of new wilderness, this bill carves out more than 24 million acres of new
wilderness. That area is larger than any of the districts represented by the 72 cosponsors
of the bill. In fact, out of 435 Congressional Districts, only 18 are larger. Representative
Carolyn Maloney – who is the lead sponsor of this bill – could fit her New York district
into the new wilderness created by NREPA almost 3,000 times.
And while you may have the votes to force your will on the people who live in the
Northern Rockies, I’m here to tell you that doing so isn’t in anyone’s best interest. Not
the folks who live on this land, and not the people you were elected to represent. It’s not
even in the best interest of the ecosystems we all want to protect.
Let me be absolutely clear about something. The folks I represent support
responsible land conservation. Currently, there are more than 30 million acres of state
and federal land in Montana alone - that’s nearly one acre in every three. As a state
where lifestyles and livelihoods depend on the land we live upon, it’s one of our top
priorities. And we do an outstanding job.
To manage these lands, stake-holders come to the table and formulate consensusdriven
solutions at the local level. The federal government could learn a lot from
examples in my state that center around three words: cooperation, trust and consensus.
For example, the Undaunted Stewardship approach demonstrates the ability of farm and
ranch families to contribute to the preservation of open space and scenic beauty while
continuing to use the land for productive purposes.
Rehberg 2
For the Montanans who work, till, graze, hunt, fish, hike, camp and enjoy this
land, conservation is not only a daily personal choice; it’s our way of life. Real
conservation isn’t about making tough decisions for someone else who lives thousands of
miles away, yet that’s exactly what NREPA does.
The workable solutions we need won’t come from Washington, D.C.; we need to
reach a balance that truly reflects Montana not the ideals of powerful special interests.
From Washington, D.C., it’s impossible to smell the toxic smoke from hundreds
of raging wildfires that will be harder to fight if NREPA passes.
From Washington, D.C., it’s impossible to see the 1.6 million-plus acres of dead
and dying trees that result from pine beetle infestations that will be more difficult to
manage if NREPA passes.
From Washington, D.C., you can’t watch a hillside change colors as indigenous
plants are slowly strangled out of existence by toxic weeds that are impossible to fight
once NREPA passes.
From Washington, D.C., you can’t hear the frustration in the voice of a hunter or
angler who can no longer get to the secluded mountain ridge where his family has gone
for generations once NREPA passes.
From Washington, D.C., you can’t walk on the overgrazed lands once managed
by ranchers who can no longer take their open range livestock to new pastures once
NREPA passes.
From Washington, D.C., Congress pushes for alternative energy from wind and
the sun. But how can we get that power, and create green jobs in the process, if we can’t
build transmission grids across our lands once NREPA passes?
And there’s a new concern looming in the minds of the folks around Montana and
the country. There aren’t many things folks in the Northern Rockies care more about
than their Second Amendment rights. Bills like NREPA create more federally controlled
land, but they don’t guarantee Second Amendment rights on that land. The recent
decision to eliminate Second Amendment Rights on some federal lands is nothing more
than back-door gun control, and it’s not hard to imagine wilderness as the next target for
restricted gun access. I’m concerned that NREPA has no guarantees that the federal
government won’t someday ban guns on other federal lands the way it just did in
National Parks.
At the end of the day, this is about Washington, D.C. thinking it knows how to
manage the Northern Rockies better than the people who live there. I’m here to say this
isn’t the case.
Many of Representative Maloney’s constituents in New York’s 14th District
undoubtedly find Central Park a welcome refuge from the urban surroundings of
America’s most crowded city. A Montanan who visited Central Park recently shared an
observation with me: Although Central Park was free of buildings and streets, many of
the open spaces were cordoned off by fences. Visitors could walk or run on centrally
planned pathways, but the fields of grass around them were off limits. NREPA models
its philosophy for 24 million acres of land after the approach taken in the 843 acres of
Central Park. Look, but don’t touch.
This approach may work in Manhattan, New York, but it doesn’t work in
Manhattan, Montana. I can’t stress how crucial that distinction is, and that’s why I
oppose this bill.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Find More on the hearing (even the whack-jobs testimony) here................


If you click on the panel members name in this link you can read their testimony.
http://resourcescommittee.house.gov/...view&extid=250

 

Elk, Haven't had enough time to digest this bill, but had a couple of comments on the statement made to congress. I have you quoted below.....I know it's not you speaking, it's Rehberg.

-Wilderness does not exclude hunters or anglers. They're free to hunt / fish "their" ridge anytime they want during the seasons. ATVs and horses won't be allowed, but a lot of hardcore hunters / anglers look at that as a good thing. 75% direct reduction in competition and improved heard / fish numbers. Just gotta be willing to hike for it. I know that's difficult for some folks though.

True. However, that's part of the point of Wilderness. It burns on its natural cycle. Makes it a lot less expensive for the tax payers. Once the cycle stabilizes, it's a much more manageable situation. It's when they don't let it burn and the undergrowth builds up for decades that we get into BIG trouble. One of the USFS' largest expenses is fire. It's the #1 priority right now. Think of all that money going to ATV trails and recreation if we weren't spending it all on fire managment. I say let it burn in a controlled manner. I need to say this all the time now: This is just my opinion.

Certainly something that needs to be looked at. That's a major issue. That might just be a deal killer in some areas.

I disagree with this point. This is Federal land, it is owned and managed by the US government. The US government is based out of Washington. It was Washington that created these vast areas in the first place, so lets not now claim they are the "problem". Part of the problem is these people chose to live near federal lands, like my family did. Nobody forced them to live there and they are free to leave. I know this is a tough pill to swallow. My grandfather owned land adjacent to the Green Mountain National Forest in Peru, VT. The USFS cut a huge main logging trail about 500 yards from our front door. Was he pleased.....not in the least. ATVs and snowmobiles then started using the trail all hours of the day and night. -By the way, I was one of the ones running my YZ125 on the logging trails. He got the land for a great deal in the 60's and he realized the federal government was his neighbor, which was part of the reason it was $400 an acre back then.


NYC: 8,300,00 people sharing 843 acres. That is why most of the green areas are fenced off from the paths. There are entry points, you just need to go walk over to them. Otherwise the grass would all be trampled from people cutting across and making their own trails through the park. Not a real comparison, but understand the point he's making.

It's a tough deal. Not likely the bill will pass as is anyway. They'll come to some compromise surely. I will look around and ask some folks I know if there's any talk of provisions for snowmobile and atv industries. Do they have plans to mitigate the loss of thousands of miles of access? Is there money set aside to pay for a new trails, and not just to close old ones. Now, if fire suppression wasn't so high on the USFS list of things to do, we'd have all kinds of money. Fire takes the lion's share. That's a Bush era deal.


Surely someone is going to claim that the only reason I think fire is not an issue is because it's not my house that's on fire. No, protect people's homes the best you can. Part of the reason so many homes burn is because the fires are so intense due to fuel build-up and the lack of resources.

 

Great comments from Congressman Denny Rehberg. Since I hurt my back I can't walk the miles upon miles I used to rack up. Maybe all of the people who have similar problems should get together and sue under the Federal Disabilities Act. Maybe I could keep some of these existing roads open for others who also have physical issues. It tires me to think that lands owned by the public that used to be open to motorized traffic are being closed. Funride, I don't need a response. I'm just putting in my .02 worth. I'm glad people are healthy enough to walk the way I used to in search of wildlife but I can't circle the mountaintops of Westmore, VT or the hills of Barnard, VT like I used to. I know these are not part of what is going on out in the West but I sympathize for the hunters who don't have the legs or bodies of their youth due to injuries. It gets me tired that people use the word government all the time. Where does their money come from???? The people. Again, just my own observations and opinion.

 

Elk, link is dead. Don't think the whole string is there.

 

I do not necessarily agree with this bill. I think we can all discuss this in a reasonable fashion.

So we're talking 23 million acres. This is serious. I just don't see it getting very far, but I could be wrong. I've been reading the actual bill and will offer up a reasonable take in a bit. How could they make 23 million acres Wilderness in one swoop......It's just not possible. All hell would break loose if 23 million acres of USFS, BLM and US Park Service were shut down to everything but hiking. For some reason I was thinking this was about 1 million acres......23 million is a whole different ballgame. I simply can not see this getting through the House and the Senate as is. I realize a lot of people rely on these lands for a living and their quality of life. It is not just adjacent land owners.

 

Working on that




If you click on the panel members name in this link you can read their testimony.
http://resourcescommittee.house.gov/...view&extid=250


Worked yesterday, and still works on snowest?????? Does still work on Snowest. If I cannot get it go to Snowest forums.....General Snowmobiling....NREPA thread...and it is on the second to the last page. I believe it is page 8. Ill go back and bring back that whole post. so you can recognize it.
Okay it is on page 8 and here it is....the link works there....
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
snow2382
Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Sheridan, WY
Posts: 18




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadLever
Keep up the running dialogue folks, I can't get my viewer to work. I get 2 or 3 seconds and then "buffering......buffering....." Arghhhh!! And I have a high speed system here at work. Anyone got an alternate feed?

If you click on the panel members name in this link you can read their testimony.
http://resourcescommittee.house.gov/...view&extid=250

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by snow2382; 05-05-2009 at 03:50 PM.








--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Negative. Link is still dead.

 

All good points MooseHenden. As a moderator on one of the hunting forums I visit Called it "Youth elitism" We are all getting older and can't climb and hike like we used to. One other thing....My girlfriend is in a wheelchair.....that kind of messes thiings up as far as wilderness visits doesn't it
Now lets see if I can get a workable link



http://www.resourcescommittee.house....ate+2009-05-05