You are looking at it from a very narrow point of view. New England may have more boats than ATV's but that is certainly not true in the mid west, or even the left coast - much of which is desert.

 

oh I know- I was just say'in basically that even in new england where there's a boat dealer around every corner, a mariner on every lake and yacht on every beach- I still wouldn't call it a "huge" economic impact.
Sure, every little bit helps- but it's not rebuilding the fire dept, putting more cops on the street or giving the local high school a new gym- and the revenue generated by atv's is far, far below that of boats, on the east coast, west coast, florida to texas and the great lakes- money spent on boats by boaters, boat manufacturers and dealers trump that of atv's.

 

I can say from going to the HF&MC trails they are something to see. With the area available in the trail systems and the off the trail trails there is more than enough land to support many more riders.
If you haven't been there don't be so quick to form an opinion.
Some of that area would be just like the movie deliverance and the only people employed would be in the mine. The jobs created in that area granted are in the service industry but women and kids need jobs also (not hating just saying since the only employer is the mine)
Everyone in the area benefits.

Here in PA in the center of the state there is no more manufacturing and that means limited jobs and people on the public dole.
I wouldn't blink if PA did something similar.
There are literally hundreds and hundreds of miles that could be put to good use putting money in peoples pockets and the state treasury.
We have casinos now so why not sled and atv parks run by the state in an area that isn't doing squat.

 

i can only imagine that the state wouldn't want the liability. anymore, this is a sue happy society. even with a waiver, some bonehead would get hurt, damage his/her quad, or get wet/muddy(that one is akin to spilling hot coffee in their lap and suing McDonalds), and would do their best to sue the state run park for MILLIONS. people are looking for a free ride. that's why so many stay on the unemployment checks rather than work. they can "make a living" being unemployed because of the handouts.
meanwhile, i don't understand why the state wouldn't sell/lease the land to a small business to open such an operation. that would be tax money coming in to them. hmmmm.

 

Rock Run Recreation :: Welcome
Rock Run Recreation Area Timeline

Year 2004

Rock Run Board organized
Property survey was completed by Stiffler McGraw Associates
Wetland Delineation of site completed by Baker Engineering
Meteorological test towers erected to study for potential wind development
Construction of mine drainage remediation systems commenced
ATV Events
Inaugural Ride conducted to introduce site to Pennsylvania State Officials, State ATV organizations, and the local community
1st Poker Run
Year 2005

Master Site Plan study commenced by Pashek & Associates
Launch of Rock Run Web site
Subsequent meetings with Cambria and Clearfield County officials and Conservation Districts
Project Management Team Assembled for project development :
Andy Gonsman – Project Coordinator
D.W. LaSota Engineering, Inc.: Technical and Engineering Advisor
Design and Engineering of Phase I – commenced:
50 Miles of Trail
Phase I of Visitors Center
Entrance Road and Supporting Facilities
ATV Event
Spring and Fall Poker Run


Note the involvement with the County.

I went here for the Brian Fisher Reunion last year and it was a well organized event. Family fun no booze and everyone wears a helmet and has a registered bike.

This is perfect example on a very small scale where the envro groups/local and county govt got together and made something nice. Cambria Co is in the middle of nowhere.

Edit - I forgot the waiver with the rules and regulations. (this helps with liability issues)

 

it's too difficult to control the flow of atv acess of such a large riding area- locals will have hundreds of ways to access the trails without paying- any legit local isn't going to want to pay or volunteer time or money to upkeep trails used by mainly visitors-

unlike lakes, where you can sit a ranger on a seat at the loading ramp and scrutinize every single boater in the lake in regards to boating & lake usage fees- you can't do that with atv trails-
If you park a ranger at an atv trail staging area and force people to pay- people will just start finding another way into the trail system- regardless if it's illegal. The percentage of legit atv riders who actually pay for their reg, club fees and obey local atv laws is so small when compared to the actual atv population- it's not worth the state spending money purchasing huge lots of land and dedicating it atv use- or trying to enforce it- there's no money in it from the states perspective.

You can't control thousands of miles worth or trails with a handful of rangers- and who's paying for the rangers???? Legit atv riders- and how long do you think they'll be legit atv owners if the state keeps jacking up their (our) fees to pay for rangers to chase the teenagers who are out for an afternoon blast? ... not long.

dunno- if I had to put a number on it.... I'd say there's only one legit atv rider for every 20 atv owners

 

At a trail system the size of HF&MC you buy your ticket to ride and that is a sticker.
Different color every year and the year is posted on this decal with a serial number.(links the decal to you)
You stick it on the left side of your helmet, this keeps folks honest...
There is a large open lot at the trail head with a staffed welcome station that sells shirts, hats ect.
The trails are all patrolled and illegal riders are fined.
50 bucks a head for non residents and 26.50 if you live there.
It really is a large well maintained operation because it makes so much money.
20,000 non residents at 50 a pop is 1 million dollars.
An earlier poster said 175 per person per visit - and the real number is around 35,000 visitors and growing. When you are talking big money you protect your golden cow.

 

even at 1 million dollars- that's nothing great- how much of that 1 mil is being funneled back into the local community? 1/20th maybe, probably more like 7 or 8 % - if it's a non profit, they aren't paying any taxes on it. They have just enough money to maintain the system and pay a few bills- hell (not h) Our town budget (small hick town) is over 15 million yr... there's no establishment with aspirations of becoming a Forbes top 40 in the atv business.

yep- same deal here on our state trails- yet the majority of riders on them are not registered, don't belong to any club and ride the trails late in the day when the (maybe 2) rangers are long gone... plus, every house that boarders the trail system has it's own trail connecting to it that all the locals use-
It's impossible to patrol and tag such a large system of trails- not nearly as easily as say, boat ramps... the only time the state can recoup lost revenue is by hiring rangers to go out and find unregistered atv riders... I don't think it's top priority on the states list.

 

let me put this into perspective- the company I work for directly funnels 33 million per year into the surrounding towns- and that's just one biotech company out of dozens in the area- local dealerships contribute hundreds of thousands of dollars directly to their community- textiles, mills and outlets make up a large chunks of a community and utility companies & contractors also spend huge amounts of money in the local community- that's what you could consider "HUGE" economic impact. atv's... well, they contribute- but it's far from anything significant when put in contrast.

Midwest, southwest areas see oil money.

I'll continue the debate tomorrow (I love a good debate - I need to sleep-
Lets do some math tomorrow and see exactly what's needed to suppose atv'ers contribute a huge amount to the local economics and how much a business needs to pull in to show a significant profit after all liabilities are accounted for- think you'll be surprised by the numbers once it's all accounted for...

 

Most areas suited for good ATV trails aren't suited for much else. I can't imagine too many Walmarts popping up in the hills of WV. With that said, if land is well suited for trails, the trails will be there whether they are organized or not. Most of the land used for the HM trails is not owned or leased by the state or by HM at all. Instead, HM offers legal protection to the agreeing landowners against ATV related lawsuits. It is a win win for landowners. There were riders on their land before the traills were organized who would be more than willing to sue in the event of an accident. By agreeing to allow HM to actually organize the trails, there is now legal patroling of the trails and the landowners don't have to worry about lawsuits. If you don't believe 43 businesses have opened up as a result of 10 yrs of HM trailriding, get on their website and check out the amount of lodging offered that is trail accessible. If you look at just the cabins and campgrounds, most/all of which wouldn't be open if not for the local trails, you have 24 business to choose from. Then move down and check out the bed and breakfasts, hotels/motels, etc. I cannot think of any other draw to southern WV that would require 30+ lodging options (w/ exception of rafting @ Pineville???). If you look at 35000 permits and $175 per person per trip, you are talking serious impact. We had a group of 3 take two trips there last year. By those numbers, we would have spent $1050 dollars there. I can tell you we spent well more than that. We spent $800 on lodging, $40 per day to fuel up the quads, gas for the truck, food for 3 for 6 days and the list goes on and on. I will say that the difference I have seen with HM and other places is that the locals at HM WANT riders to come because they do want our money. They are friendly and welcoming. The experience there is awesome. Park the truck and live off the quads. Here in Ohio we have Wayne National Forest. It has only one trailhead with 75 miles of trail. That is really all the state has to offer. There you can camp at the trailhead, but there is no food, no gas, no grocery, etc. available. This year they have outlawed alcohol completely. While the trails are good, they are killing the overall experience. I think Ohio is more typical of most of the US, but many areas still exist that do benefit from ATVs. While at HM I picked up a pamphlet describing the new big trail system opening up in the western portion of Virginia. The pamphlet projected the trail system would attract $30,000,000 to the area over the first 10 years. I know we could use that kind of money here...if we only had the terrain!