STREET LEGAL - why not?
#21
07-30-1999, 05:17 AM
Don't shoot the messenger!
As convenient and fun as the concept of a "Dual Sport" (street legal) quad might be, little chance!
Who opposes street legal quads most violently? ATV manufacturers!
Why? Product liability!
Hamilcar Dimwit makes a right turn at 60 mph directly in the path of an 18-wheeler and winds up the hood ornament on a Peterbilt diesel.
Ham's bereaved heirs sue the quad manufacturer for the lifetime earning potential of the victim (had he lived, he would have been President of a Fortune 500 firm), plus pain and suffering, plus--punitive damages for manufacturing such an un-crashworthy deathtrap for highway use.
Accordingly, the ATV manufacturer's insurance company raises its premiums, passed on to ATV customers. Prices climb, until: The average manufacturer's suggested retail price of all quads, exclusive of shipping, setup, and tax, is: $ 185,742. Sales drop, ATV manufacturers either go bankrupt or divert their production to products less likely the subject of litigation, like . . . like (sorry, I can't think of a safe example).
Couldn't happen? Look at the small aircraft industry, held responsible for property damage and bodily injury for plane crashes. Without evidence before me, I have heard the major cost component in a small plane's price is the liability insurance burden. Many aviation companies are defunct, or no longer manufacture small aircraft.
Realistically, instead of wishing for street legal quads, sensible legislation, along the lines of PA's road CROSSING law, appears a more plausible goal.
Equitable legislation is difficult ("give 'em and inch and they'll take a mile"). I know of areas where, although quads on the road are technically illegal, enlightened cops selectively enforce anti-ATV laws. In other words, if a rider behaves, and operates his machine safely, they do not bust him for driving up to the gas pump or the coffee shop. The cops themselves take risks in this situation, because they are vulnerable to dereliction of duty charges and lawsuits if some idiot T-bones a staion wagon on Main Street.
Some good reasons why quads are not streetable appear in this topic; I add another I believe valid, like it or not. Again, don't shoot the messenger! Please!
Tree Farmer
[This message has been edited by Tree Farmer (edited 07-30-1999).]
As convenient and fun as the concept of a "Dual Sport" (street legal) quad might be, little chance!
Who opposes street legal quads most violently? ATV manufacturers!
Why? Product liability!
Hamilcar Dimwit makes a right turn at 60 mph directly in the path of an 18-wheeler and winds up the hood ornament on a Peterbilt diesel.
Ham's bereaved heirs sue the quad manufacturer for the lifetime earning potential of the victim (had he lived, he would have been President of a Fortune 500 firm), plus pain and suffering, plus--punitive damages for manufacturing such an un-crashworthy deathtrap for highway use.
Accordingly, the ATV manufacturer's insurance company raises its premiums, passed on to ATV customers. Prices climb, until: The average manufacturer's suggested retail price of all quads, exclusive of shipping, setup, and tax, is: $ 185,742. Sales drop, ATV manufacturers either go bankrupt or divert their production to products less likely the subject of litigation, like . . . like (sorry, I can't think of a safe example).
Couldn't happen? Look at the small aircraft industry, held responsible for property damage and bodily injury for plane crashes. Without evidence before me, I have heard the major cost component in a small plane's price is the liability insurance burden. Many aviation companies are defunct, or no longer manufacture small aircraft.
Realistically, instead of wishing for street legal quads, sensible legislation, along the lines of PA's road CROSSING law, appears a more plausible goal.
Equitable legislation is difficult ("give 'em and inch and they'll take a mile"). I know of areas where, although quads on the road are technically illegal, enlightened cops selectively enforce anti-ATV laws. In other words, if a rider behaves, and operates his machine safely, they do not bust him for driving up to the gas pump or the coffee shop. The cops themselves take risks in this situation, because they are vulnerable to dereliction of duty charges and lawsuits if some idiot T-bones a staion wagon on Main Street.
Some good reasons why quads are not streetable appear in this topic; I add another I believe valid, like it or not. Again, don't shoot the messenger! Please!
Tree Farmer
[This message has been edited by Tree Farmer (edited 07-30-1999).]
#22
07-30-1999, 11:37 AM
Where my shotgun?!?!? I think that ATV's, with some modifications should be able to ride down to the corner store at a respecable speed without being stopped. What are you nuts taking your ATV on a highway?!?!? And even worst, taking turns at 60mph?!?! The quad would flip! There would be too much traction for the quad. I know of this cuz I watched a guy take a upper part of a S turn at 50mph and just loose it into the fence.
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*400EX* *LT250R* Evan Johnson Email: JaVa003@AoL.CoM
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*400EX* *LT250R* Evan Johnson Email: JaVa003@AoL.CoM
#23
07-30-1999, 12:46 PM
You miss the point by a wide margin, Evan!
Product liability lawsuits result often in humongous damages paid paintiffs, REGARDLESS WHETHER AN IDIOT RIDES 60 MPH AND EXECUTES A RIGHT-ANGLE TURN ON THE JERSEY TURNPIKE!
Responsibility of the product user often is ignored when courts award product liability lawsuit damages (Evan, did you know hot coffee can actually BURN exposed skin? Not common knowledge, according to the court awarding thousands of dollars in damages to a lady burned by a cup of MacCoffee she spilled at MacDonald's.).
While a responsible rider like you, Evan, even though you're only 14 years old, would never never never ride a quad unsafely on the street, any more than you'd ride a bicycle on the wrong side of the street in front of a moving car; if quads were street legal, others without your self-discipline WOULD. Also, you, Evan, would never never never sue a manufacturer for your own misuse of their product, but, unfortunately, others would.
Sadly, laws and policies must be made assuming the worst behavior of the public, not the best, represented by you, Evan. If you were the only quad rider in the country, then there's no problem making quads street legal. But the less responsible would abuse the privilege, a risk no manufacturer wants to take.
Tree Farmer
Product liability lawsuits result often in humongous damages paid paintiffs, REGARDLESS WHETHER AN IDIOT RIDES 60 MPH AND EXECUTES A RIGHT-ANGLE TURN ON THE JERSEY TURNPIKE!
Responsibility of the product user often is ignored when courts award product liability lawsuit damages (Evan, did you know hot coffee can actually BURN exposed skin? Not common knowledge, according to the court awarding thousands of dollars in damages to a lady burned by a cup of MacCoffee she spilled at MacDonald's.).
While a responsible rider like you, Evan, even though you're only 14 years old, would never never never ride a quad unsafely on the street, any more than you'd ride a bicycle on the wrong side of the street in front of a moving car; if quads were street legal, others without your self-discipline WOULD. Also, you, Evan, would never never never sue a manufacturer for your own misuse of their product, but, unfortunately, others would.
Sadly, laws and policies must be made assuming the worst behavior of the public, not the best, represented by you, Evan. If you were the only quad rider in the country, then there's no problem making quads street legal. But the less responsible would abuse the privilege, a risk no manufacturer wants to take.
Tree Farmer
#24
07-30-1999, 02:05 PM
I know the reason fourwheelers are not street legal. Its because us Timberwolf owners would be flying up and down the roads at break neck speeds. All you would see is a blur of Timberwolf flying by you at a cool 120 mph.
If you've ever been to the auto bahn in Germany, that is all you see, Timberwolfs outrunning lamborghinies, and ferraries like they are nothing. My point is, Law enforcement has nothing that could touch the mighty timberwolf.
I'm sorry us Timberwolf owners have ruined it for everyone.
*tounge in cheek* hahahaha
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Jeremy Cross
1993 Yamaha *turbo* t-wolf
If you've ever been to the auto bahn in Germany, that is all you see, Timberwolfs outrunning lamborghinies, and ferraries like they are nothing. My point is, Law enforcement has nothing that could touch the mighty timberwolf.
I'm sorry us Timberwolf owners have ruined it for everyone.
*tounge in cheek* hahahaha
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Jeremy Cross
1993 Yamaha *turbo* t-wolf
#25
07-30-1999, 04:45 PM
Then why don't they just have the same rules for cars apply? Are you saying some people would ride them on the wrong side? Why? Fine, go ahead, they get in trouble just like a car on the wrong side would. Same rules...same rules...same rules. Tree Farmer, are you saying that other people Evan's age might ride dangerously? Look at motorscooters. 14 year olds can ride them at that age in town. I don't see any problems with letting a 4-wheeler ride IN TOWN legally. Just have a law that says they can't ride on the highways. Do you see much motorscooters on the highways? I see a lot in town actually. ATVs wouldn't be any more dangerous than a motorscooter? Whatchya think
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- 1996 Kawasaki Mojave, 1998 Kawasaki Mojave, http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/B...8090/home.html
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- 1996 Kawasaki Mojave, 1998 Kawasaki Mojave, http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/B...8090/home.html
#26
07-30-1999, 06:35 PM
Friend, if you're going to quote me, say exactly what I say. Read my post again, this time, carefully. I made no such allegations as you suggest, in fact, the opposite. Accurate quotes from me should inflame you enough; you needn't fabricate them.
Now, regarding your question, "Whatchya think(?)," it doesn't matter what I think on this issue. It matters what Mr. Honda, Mr. Polaris, Mr. Kawasaki, Mr. Suzuki, et al, think--do they think they want their companies exposed to the inevitable vulnerability of product liability of street and highway use of their ATV's in general, and, since you brought it up, by 14-year-olds in particular?
Also, it matters what the state legislatures think; should ATV's and their riders be exposed to highway and street traffic hazards; should 14-year-olds receive unrestricted drivers' licenses?
You said, "Then why don't they just have the same rules for cars apply?" Rules applying to cars require licensed drivers behind the wheel when driven on public streets and highways.
If you want change, your target audience is the ATV manufacturers and the state legislatures, not me. However, be careful what you wish for: your advocacy invites National Transportation Safety Board hegemony over ATV's; do you really want to open that Pandora's box?
Tree Farmer
[This message has been edited by Tree Farmer (edited 07-30-1999).]
Now, regarding your question, "Whatchya think(?)," it doesn't matter what I think on this issue. It matters what Mr. Honda, Mr. Polaris, Mr. Kawasaki, Mr. Suzuki, et al, think--do they think they want their companies exposed to the inevitable vulnerability of product liability of street and highway use of their ATV's in general, and, since you brought it up, by 14-year-olds in particular?
Also, it matters what the state legislatures think; should ATV's and their riders be exposed to highway and street traffic hazards; should 14-year-olds receive unrestricted drivers' licenses?
You said, "Then why don't they just have the same rules for cars apply?" Rules applying to cars require licensed drivers behind the wheel when driven on public streets and highways.
If you want change, your target audience is the ATV manufacturers and the state legislatures, not me. However, be careful what you wish for: your advocacy invites National Transportation Safety Board hegemony over ATV's; do you really want to open that Pandora's box?
Tree Farmer
[This message has been edited by Tree Farmer (edited 07-30-1999).]
#27
07-31-1999, 01:33 PM
If i were to modifie a quad to be road on the road i would take a banshee. Add +3,+2 aarms, extended axle, trinity 500 kit, those pep limited mass shocks, lowering kit, and a anti sway bar. Then i wouldn't have to worry about flipping it going around corners. Also event't with all this stuff i would easy on alittle of the rear brakes when going around a corner, then the back end would slide.
#28
07-31-1999, 01:36 PM
hey i ot this idea to make money Do you think it would work? I would go to motorcycle salvage yards and strip all the stuff of the bike thaat you need to make a atv or dirt bike street leagel and sell it as a kit. Like the speedo, brakelight, blinkers, that stuff. You think i could make money selling that.
#29
08-01-1999, 10:23 PM
ATVs should be no different than scooters. Just give it some functions of the scooter and let it be ridden on everywhere except EXPRESSWAYs. Add better brakes, rearview mirrors, more lights, and thats it. Then it should be street legal. I wonder why no company has thought of that. I'm sure it'd be a winner. I bet it would break the market in sales. I'd get one, i'd pay up to 8000.
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Alibaba
'98 Honda 300ex, '97 Honda Recon, '86 TRX125
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Alibaba
'98 Honda 300ex, '97 Honda Recon, '86 TRX125
#30
08-05-1999, 09:09 PM
well i dont know if any of you relize it but if your quad is registered as a farm vehical and you have one of those orange triangles on the back of your quad you can drive it on the street. i guess all we need are those triangles and to register as a farm vehical. thats my idea
tony
97 banshee
tony
97 banshee