Attempted Quad Theft!
#61
10-19-1999, 02:07 PM
Yes, power does depend on both current and voltage. Although voltage is in the equation, the reason I stated that is because everyone is convinced that it's voltage and only voltage that causes a shock. Yes, it takes a lot of voltage to push electrons through a human body. Yes, you do need high voltage to create a shock. But ultimately it's the volume of electrons flowing through your body that hurt so bad. High voltage just makes it easier for them to flow. (I can't say that high voltage makes them flow any faster because all electricity flows at the speed of light, but higher voltage (think of more pressure in a hose) will allow more current to flow. So it's all in the equation.
All I can say about the protection of a Texan's property is "Told ya so." Sorry if that's a little childish, but I hate being told I'm wrong unless someone has some valid proof. If I am, I will admit to being either partially wrong or a complete idiot. I have admitted to being partially incorrect pertaining to this voltage vs. current discussion, but everything I have stated about current flow is a fact, just my "theory" on electrical shocking was a litle away from the truth.
It takes both voltage and current to cause someone to be shocked.
Back to the real topic:
I think that the Redhead and metal plate idea seemed like a good idea. I think you might as well start with the garage doors and lock them up with a quality lock to deter a criminal from gaining access to the garage in the first place. Next, I'd recemmend some stickers that say something to the effect that you have an alarm system. Actually having an alarm system would be good, but the stickers would be a good idea if you can't afford the alarm. I'd get insurance either way because I'd be paranoid, so you might want look into that. The chain idea and a lock in the rearend sounds like a great idea.
My mom is not a practicing lawyer, and I've alraedy told her for the last 6 years that I want a quad. I was even supposed to get one at one time........guess if I really want one I'll have to save my own money though, which I most certinly will! And when I do, I appreciate everyone's input on theft control!
------------------
Want a Magnum or Sportsman 500!!!
All I can say about the protection of a Texan's property is "Told ya so." Sorry if that's a little childish, but I hate being told I'm wrong unless someone has some valid proof. If I am, I will admit to being either partially wrong or a complete idiot. I have admitted to being partially incorrect pertaining to this voltage vs. current discussion, but everything I have stated about current flow is a fact, just my "theory" on electrical shocking was a litle away from the truth.
It takes both voltage and current to cause someone to be shocked.
Back to the real topic:
I think that the Redhead and metal plate idea seemed like a good idea. I think you might as well start with the garage doors and lock them up with a quality lock to deter a criminal from gaining access to the garage in the first place. Next, I'd recemmend some stickers that say something to the effect that you have an alarm system. Actually having an alarm system would be good, but the stickers would be a good idea if you can't afford the alarm. I'd get insurance either way because I'd be paranoid, so you might want look into that. The chain idea and a lock in the rearend sounds like a great idea.
My mom is not a practicing lawyer, and I've alraedy told her for the last 6 years that I want a quad. I was even supposed to get one at one time........guess if I really want one I'll have to save my own money though, which I most certinly will! And when I do, I appreciate everyone's input on theft control!
------------------
Want a Magnum or Sportsman 500!!!
#62
10-19-1999, 10:10 PM
Tree Farmer,
Either way, the Texas laws have been stated.
Maybe it's just because I am young and have never had a lot of money. Maybe it's because I'm a ruthless scumbag. But, I know that I'd have no problem putting a bullet in someone's head for trying to steal my $6000+ quad if I ever did end up getting one. (Believe me, I'm saving) I'm sorry everyone, but when you know the cops won't do a damn thing, sometimes we have to take things into our own hands. You can be damn sure that I'd give them a chance to run off before I pulled the trigger, however. I'd much rather see them suffer in prison than die at the hands of my pistol.
I own a helmet and as of now have no reason to wear it.
Sorry to get off subject. Good luck securinng your quad! But as previously stated by someone else, if someone wants to get it, they'll probably succeed. We just want to slow them down.
------------------
Want a Magnum or Sportsman 500!!!
Either way, the Texas laws have been stated.
Maybe it's just because I am young and have never had a lot of money. Maybe it's because I'm a ruthless scumbag. But, I know that I'd have no problem putting a bullet in someone's head for trying to steal my $6000+ quad if I ever did end up getting one. (Believe me, I'm saving) I'm sorry everyone, but when you know the cops won't do a damn thing, sometimes we have to take things into our own hands. You can be damn sure that I'd give them a chance to run off before I pulled the trigger, however. I'd much rather see them suffer in prison than die at the hands of my pistol.
I own a helmet and as of now have no reason to wear it.
Sorry to get off subject. Good luck securinng your quad! But as previously stated by someone else, if someone wants to get it, they'll probably succeed. We just want to slow them down.
------------------
Want a Magnum or Sportsman 500!!!
#63
10-31-1999, 05:26 PM
I know what its like to have a quad stolen, I had a clean 92 250X stolen, and it was not fun. We actually know who did it, because I took the shocks off that night and they went to a shop the next day looking for shocks. But the cops let them get away with it because they didn't want to get involved. I found this out because my neighbor is a narcotics agent and he looked into what they did. They arrest the two 25 year olds, interrigated them, thought it was at one of their girlfriends house. But one guy has a warrent for his arrest, so they kept him and let the other one go, then went to the girlfriends house 4 HOURS AFTER RELEASING him. Worst of all my neighbor said that the robbers would have shot me if I would have came into the garage while they were there, now why, he had personally arrested one for drugs three times, and there profession is car thief. What are these morans doing in society.
From now on I carry full insurance on my ATV, I also lock it down tight. Here's a good locking method, as a few have stated put a big lock on the rear disk. Also go to a store and buy 2 of the long loop master locks and you put them through the cooling holes in the front disks. Once installed, they are hard to even notice and the front wheels would have to be removed to cut them off. They will have carry that quad out if they want it. I also made an alarm that ended up costing under $30.00 to make, so they will wake me up if anybody tries to steel it.
From now on I carry full insurance on my ATV, I also lock it down tight. Here's a good locking method, as a few have stated put a big lock on the rear disk. Also go to a store and buy 2 of the long loop master locks and you put them through the cooling holes in the front disks. Once installed, they are hard to even notice and the front wheels would have to be removed to cut them off. They will have carry that quad out if they want it. I also made an alarm that ended up costing under $30.00 to make, so they will wake me up if anybody tries to steel it.
#64
10-31-1999, 09:59 PM
DreamofPolaris, Are you recommending killing a thief as an ATV security strategy?
What does your mother, the lawyer, think of your posting on the world wide web you're willing, perhaps eager, to kill someone over theft of property?
Imagine this; another lawyer (not your mother) represents the bereaved heirs of the deceased. Do you think he will submit your post as evidence in the wrongful death civil trial? (In a recent trial, a national figure was acquitted of criminal murder charges but found liable in a wrongful death suit.)
You say you'd kill over a $ 6000 quad. How about a $ 3000 one? Or a $ 1000 one? Or a $ 50 "project" quad? What is your monetary threshold?
Do you really want to be judge, jury and executioner, taking a human life over something replaceable with money (human life is not)?
My ATC110 was stolen, twice. The first time, the thief was caught, tried, convicted, and served jail time. I got the ATC back. The man who stole the trike has nine children; small children I saw when I went with the deputy sheriff and the state policeman to recover the machine.
Do you think those nine children would be better off if their father had been killed? Certainly, he shouldn't have taken the trike. Certainly, I was angry. But only the threat of death or serious injury to the innocent could induce me to use deadly force.
The man who stole the ATV has completed his sentence and returned to the community where he now works to feed his family; I hope he's learned his lesson.
Pray you never experience a situation when you have no option except deadly force; even a "righteous" killing produces plenty of trauma for the suvivor. I hope you will never use deadly force when you have other options.
DreamofPolaris, according to your posts, you're 16 years old, own no quad, and haven't attended the ATV Safety Institute Rider Course; yet you inform us helmets are hazardous to our health. I don't know whether you own a firearm, but have you completed a firearms safety or hunter safety or concealed-carry course? I doubt these programs recommend blowing a non-physically-threatening thief's head off, as you do.
What does your mother, the lawyer, think?
Tree Farmer
[This message has been edited by Tree Farmer (edited 11-03-1999).]
What does your mother, the lawyer, think of your posting on the world wide web you're willing, perhaps eager, to kill someone over theft of property?
Imagine this; another lawyer (not your mother) represents the bereaved heirs of the deceased. Do you think he will submit your post as evidence in the wrongful death civil trial? (In a recent trial, a national figure was acquitted of criminal murder charges but found liable in a wrongful death suit.)
You say you'd kill over a $ 6000 quad. How about a $ 3000 one? Or a $ 1000 one? Or a $ 50 "project" quad? What is your monetary threshold?
Do you really want to be judge, jury and executioner, taking a human life over something replaceable with money (human life is not)?
My ATC110 was stolen, twice. The first time, the thief was caught, tried, convicted, and served jail time. I got the ATC back. The man who stole the trike has nine children; small children I saw when I went with the deputy sheriff and the state policeman to recover the machine.
Do you think those nine children would be better off if their father had been killed? Certainly, he shouldn't have taken the trike. Certainly, I was angry. But only the threat of death or serious injury to the innocent could induce me to use deadly force.
The man who stole the ATV has completed his sentence and returned to the community where he now works to feed his family; I hope he's learned his lesson.
Pray you never experience a situation when you have no option except deadly force; even a "righteous" killing produces plenty of trauma for the suvivor. I hope you will never use deadly force when you have other options.
DreamofPolaris, according to your posts, you're 16 years old, own no quad, and haven't attended the ATV Safety Institute Rider Course; yet you inform us helmets are hazardous to our health. I don't know whether you own a firearm, but have you completed a firearms safety or hunter safety or concealed-carry course? I doubt these programs recommend blowing a non-physically-threatening thief's head off, as you do.
What does your mother, the lawyer, think?
Tree Farmer
[This message has been edited by Tree Farmer (edited 11-03-1999).]
#65
11-04-1999, 04:08 PM
Now if you lived in Texas, you would be in your rights to use deadly force to protect personal property. However, this law only applies to attempts made at night. The law allows deadly force at any time when one feels their life is in danger.
Case in point. An apartment owner here in Houston was no-billed after shooting one of two men who were attempting to steal his car. After first running them off an earlier verbal warning, he shot and killed one of the two when they returned some time later. He fired the fatal shot from his apartment window using a hunting rifle.
The law is so much on the side of the property owner that another Houstonian was no-billed after shooting and killing a wrecker driver who was attempting (in the middle of the night) to repossess his pickup. He too was killed by a shot taken with an hunting rifle.
Little wonder that Texas also leads the country each year in the number of executions. We also happen to have more white-tailed deer and hunters than any state in the nation.
Case in point. An apartment owner here in Houston was no-billed after shooting one of two men who were attempting to steal his car. After first running them off an earlier verbal warning, he shot and killed one of the two when they returned some time later. He fired the fatal shot from his apartment window using a hunting rifle.
The law is so much on the side of the property owner that another Houstonian was no-billed after shooting and killing a wrecker driver who was attempting (in the middle of the night) to repossess his pickup. He too was killed by a shot taken with an hunting rifle.
Little wonder that Texas also leads the country each year in the number of executions. We also happen to have more white-tailed deer and hunters than any state in the nation.
#66
11-04-1999, 05:19 PM
While hunting, I park my atv hidden in brush as best I can and walk a distance away from it to my tree stand or hunting spot. I wouldn't suspect a fellow atv-hunter would steal another fellow hunter's atv, but then again, you just never know. Has anyone ever experienced a theft or an attempted theft of their parked in the woods atv while hunting?
#67
11-04-1999, 05:45 PM
> Has anyone ever experienced a theft or an attempted theft
> of their parked in the woods atv while hunting?
Sort of.
The man arrested, tried and convicted of stealing my ATC110 claimed he "found" it while turkey hunting (on my property, without permission).
The ATV "followed him home," so to speak.
Charged with Grand Theft, ATV; he plea-bargained to Petty Theft, was sentenced to 350 days in jail with all but 10 suspended with the proviso he stay a mile away from my propety during his sentence.
My recommendation: unless the ATV is within your view, or you are certain of the seclusion of your area, as a minimum, disable the machine (e.g., remove the keys; if no keys, remove the spark plug; etc.), lock the machine down if convenient.
Tree Farmer
> of their parked in the woods atv while hunting?
Sort of.
The man arrested, tried and convicted of stealing my ATC110 claimed he "found" it while turkey hunting (on my property, without permission).
The ATV "followed him home," so to speak.
Charged with Grand Theft, ATV; he plea-bargained to Petty Theft, was sentenced to 350 days in jail with all but 10 suspended with the proviso he stay a mile away from my propety during his sentence.
My recommendation: unless the ATV is within your view, or you are certain of the seclusion of your area, as a minimum, disable the machine (e.g., remove the keys; if no keys, remove the spark plug; etc.), lock the machine down if convenient.
Tree Farmer
#68
11-04-1999, 10:15 PM
Without a doubt the atv will be locked down with heavy transport chain and double cylinder deadbolt lock wrapped around the biggest diameter oak tree trunk I can find with enough cover to hide the atv. I even have a 3-D cammo cover for it. The key goes with me. But again, you never know. Chains and locks can be cut, so can the oak tree with more effort.
Geico insures my vehicles and camper and gave me a quote for the Big Bear, even after attending an atv rider safety course...sit down...only $684.00 a year! Thats a great deal - for idiots or lotto winners.
I have thought of sitting within eyesight of my atv, but I feel I'd be too close which will diminish my chances for that trophy size buck or hog that might catch a sniff of it and never show itself.
I guess my best insurance policy is issued by a company called Smith & Wesson or Browning or Remington or some name like that.
Oh no - I just opened up a can of worms!
I'm outta here.
Pete - y2k Big Bear 4x4 and havin' a blast!
Geico insures my vehicles and camper and gave me a quote for the Big Bear, even after attending an atv rider safety course...sit down...only $684.00 a year! Thats a great deal - for idiots or lotto winners.
I have thought of sitting within eyesight of my atv, but I feel I'd be too close which will diminish my chances for that trophy size buck or hog that might catch a sniff of it and never show itself.
I guess my best insurance policy is issued by a company called Smith & Wesson or Browning or Remington or some name like that.
Oh no - I just opened up a can of worms!
I'm outta here.
Pete - y2k Big Bear 4x4 and havin' a blast!
#69
11-04-1999, 10:48 PM
#70
11-05-1999, 02:14 PM
I did not see the explaination that DoP had before I wrote this (his is good) but since I wrote it I might as well leave it.
For everyone's information. It is not voltage that you feel when you get "shocked", it is the current and it is Current that KILLs not voltage. However you do need both.
Basic ohms law.
E=IR E = voltage I = current R = resistance
It takes 1 milli-amp .001 amp to feel the current
10 ma - .01 amps to loose voluntary muscle control
100 ma - .1 amp to kill,
Lets look at this from a mechanical standpoint as it may be easier to understand.
amps (current flow) = gallons per minute/hour
voltage = pressure in your system PSI
resistance = restrictor
by increasing the pressure (voltage) you can get more flow for the same restriction. therefore it is easier to kill at a higher voltage since it is easier to get the flow required.
When I was in the navy the minimum voltage required to kill was 30 volts, this was based on worst case body resistance of 300 ohms
30 divide by 300 equals .1
As far as electrifying the door, you would not drain the batteries since you do not have a complete circuit for current flow. The positive terminal of the battery is connected to the door, the negative is connected to ground, when the person touches the door he/she (must be politically correct) completes the circuit to ground and based on the amount of current (which is decided on by the persons body resistance and ground contact) they receive, the above results will occur.
Remember
1)that everyones body resistance is different so each one will feel (or not feel) it differently.
2) There can be no other path to ground from the door, if there is then the battery can be drained and your victim will not receive the shock desired.
Current follows the path of least resistance, like a stream of water.
I hope I did not bore you with the techinical aspects.
I have also seen this done using a 25 watt light bulb and 120v AC. Can explain if some one wants, similiar to using a battery.
Eric Baatz EM1(SS) USN Retired
1996 Suzuki KING QUAD, Remember the KING LIVES!
[This message has been edited by ecbaatz (edited 11-05-1999).]
For everyone's information. It is not voltage that you feel when you get "shocked", it is the current and it is Current that KILLs not voltage. However you do need both.
Basic ohms law.
E=IR E = voltage I = current R = resistance
It takes 1 milli-amp .001 amp to feel the current
10 ma - .01 amps to loose voluntary muscle control
100 ma - .1 amp to kill,
Lets look at this from a mechanical standpoint as it may be easier to understand.
amps (current flow) = gallons per minute/hour
voltage = pressure in your system PSI
resistance = restrictor
by increasing the pressure (voltage) you can get more flow for the same restriction. therefore it is easier to kill at a higher voltage since it is easier to get the flow required.
When I was in the navy the minimum voltage required to kill was 30 volts, this was based on worst case body resistance of 300 ohms
30 divide by 300 equals .1
As far as electrifying the door, you would not drain the batteries since you do not have a complete circuit for current flow. The positive terminal of the battery is connected to the door, the negative is connected to ground, when the person touches the door he/she (must be politically correct) completes the circuit to ground and based on the amount of current (which is decided on by the persons body resistance and ground contact) they receive, the above results will occur.
Remember
1)that everyones body resistance is different so each one will feel (or not feel) it differently.
2) There can be no other path to ground from the door, if there is then the battery can be drained and your victim will not receive the shock desired.
Current follows the path of least resistance, like a stream of water.
I hope I did not bore you with the techinical aspects.
I have also seen this done using a 25 watt light bulb and 120v AC. Can explain if some one wants, similiar to using a battery.
Eric Baatz EM1(SS) USN Retired
1996 Suzuki KING QUAD, Remember the KING LIVES!
[This message has been edited by ecbaatz (edited 11-05-1999).]