For those who think we have a liberal media
#81
Originally posted by: budmantom
Speaking of the liberal media: when John Kerry said his remarks about only the uneducated protect his dumb azz by serving in Iraq I certainly didn't hear much about it from the big 3 and I didn't hear any disparaging remarks from his liberal left wing counterparts. Imagine if the President said something to that affect... the big 3 would be all over it.
Speaking of the liberal media: when John Kerry said his remarks about only the uneducated protect his dumb azz by serving in Iraq I certainly didn't hear much about it from the big 3 and I didn't hear any disparaging remarks from his liberal left wing counterparts. Imagine if the President said something to that affect... the big 3 would be all over it.
#82
House Republicans yesterday declared "something fishy" about the major tuna company in House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's San Francisco district being exempted from the minimum-wage increase that Democrats approved this week.
"I am shocked," said Rep. Eric Cantor, Virginia Republican and his party's chief deputy whip, noting that Mrs. Pelosi campaigned heavily on promises of honest government. "Now we find out that she is exempting hometown companies from minimum wage. This is exactly the hypocrisy and double talk that we have come to expect from the Democrats."
On Wednesday, the House voted to raise the minimum wage from $5.15 to $7.25 per hour.
The bill also extends for the first time the federal minimum wage to the U.S. territory of the Northern Mariana Islands. However, it exempts American Samoa, another Pacific island territory that would become the only U.S. territory not subject to federal minimum-wage laws.
http://washingtontimes.com/national/...0720-2734r.htm
"I am shocked," said Rep. Eric Cantor, Virginia Republican and his party's chief deputy whip, noting that Mrs. Pelosi campaigned heavily on promises of honest government. "Now we find out that she is exempting hometown companies from minimum wage. This is exactly the hypocrisy and double talk that we have come to expect from the Democrats."
On Wednesday, the House voted to raise the minimum wage from $5.15 to $7.25 per hour.
The bill also extends for the first time the federal minimum wage to the U.S. territory of the Northern Mariana Islands. However, it exempts American Samoa, another Pacific island territory that would become the only U.S. territory not subject to federal minimum-wage laws.
http://washingtontimes.com/national/...0720-2734r.htm
#83
Originally posted by: budmantom
House Republicans yesterday declared "something fishy" about the major tuna company in House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's San Francisco district being exempted from the minimum-wage increase that Democrats approved this week.
"I am shocked," said Rep. Eric Cantor, Virginia Republican and his party's chief deputy whip, noting that Mrs. Pelosi campaigned heavily on promises of honest government. "Now we find out that she is exempting hometown companies from minimum wage. This is exactly the hypocrisy and double talk that we have come to expect from the Democrats."
On Wednesday, the House voted to raise the minimum wage from $5.15 to $7.25 per hour.
The bill also extends for the first time the federal minimum wage to the U.S. territory of the Northern Mariana Islands. However, it exempts American Samoa, another Pacific island territory that would become the only U.S. territory not subject to federal minimum-wage laws.
http://washingtontimes.com/national/20070112-120720-2734r.htm
House Republicans yesterday declared "something fishy" about the major tuna company in House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's San Francisco district being exempted from the minimum-wage increase that Democrats approved this week.
"I am shocked," said Rep. Eric Cantor, Virginia Republican and his party's chief deputy whip, noting that Mrs. Pelosi campaigned heavily on promises of honest government. "Now we find out that she is exempting hometown companies from minimum wage. This is exactly the hypocrisy and double talk that we have come to expect from the Democrats."
On Wednesday, the House voted to raise the minimum wage from $5.15 to $7.25 per hour.
The bill also extends for the first time the federal minimum wage to the U.S. territory of the Northern Mariana Islands. However, it exempts American Samoa, another Pacific island territory that would become the only U.S. territory not subject to federal minimum-wage laws.
http://washingtontimes.com/national/20070112-120720-2734r.htm
I think youre going to find that theres not much support for the dems from me or anyone else. The dems and repubs are identicle. They have sided together against the people. How else do you explain, that 60% of people polled want impeachment hearings, but no media is behind that story? And the dem leadership has said they wont enforce the laws, or even think about investigate wrong doing, even though its against their oath of office to protect the constitution.
I just dont understand how the died in the wool repubs cant see that its bad for the country, to have an executive branch which is above the law. This sets the president for the dems, (and I hope it aint corporate hillery), to remove the rest of our constitutional rights. The repubs are taking away all the constitutional rights except the 2nd...and when the dems get in power, they will get that one taken away...and then we realy will be in a mess. Its an easy priciple of law, where you didnt complain about the other rights being taken away...you cant complain when they come after your guns.
Whats right is right. We are all americans first, and the only thing making us great is the constitution and our civil rights. The repubs used to scream about accounability and holding people responsible for their actions, now the only ones singing that tune is ordinary americans. We need to have the press, be free to print the truth and let the chips fall as they may. We need to become a nation of laws, and not a nation of men.
#84
This little speach was from a current FCC commissioner, yesterday.
Copps Unveils New American Media Contract
FCC Commissioner Announces Plan to Replace 'Bad Old Media Bargain' with Agenda for a More Democratic Media
FCC Commissioner Michael J. Copps tonight challenged thousands gathered at the National Conference for Media Reform to enact a new "American Media Contract," calling for citizens to stand up and "get rid of the bad old rules that got us into this mess in the first place."
Commissioner Copps will discuss the "American Media Contract" and answer questions at 9 a.m. on Saturday morning at a panel in the ballroom of the Memphis Cook Convention Center.
The text of Commissioner Copps' remarks follows:
Half a trillion dollars. That's a conservative valuation of the airwaves that our country lets TV and radio broadcasters use for free. Any way you slice it, that's an awful lot of money. In fact, it's just about the biggest chunk of change that our government gives to any private industry.
And what do the American people who own the public airwaves, by the way get in return? Too little news, too much baloney passed off as news. Too little quality entertainment, too many people eating bugs on reality TV. Too little local and regional music, too much brain-numbing national play-lists. Too little of America, too much of Wall Street and Madison Avenue. That's what we get for half a trillion dollars. It's one hell of a bad bargain, don't you think?
I don't know about you. But I'm sick of this bargain and I'm sick of playing defense. So I'm not here tonight to talk about defeating bad new media ownership rules ? although we still need to do that. I'm here to say it's time that we all get off our duffs with a real agenda. Let's get rid of the bad old rules that got us into this mess in the first place. And let's go on from there to bring tough I'm talking really tough here public interest obligations back to those who use the spectrum you own.
Here's one way we can shift from defense to offense one way to demand that the nation's media moguls hold up their end of the bargain with the American people.
I'm here to propose that we replace the bad old bargain that past FCCs struck with the media moguls with a new American Media Contract. It goes like this. We, the American people have given broadcasters free use of the nation's most valuable spectrum, and we expect something in return. We expect this:
1. A right to media that strengthens our democracy
2. A right to local stations that are actually local
3. A right to media that looks and sounds like America
4. A right to news that isn't canned and radio playlists that aren't for sale
5. A right to programming that isn't so damned bad so damned often
And, by the way, you have already paid for this with the half trillion dollars you gave the media giants so you deserve all this on free-over-the-air TV and radio.
Are any of you in this room getting all five of these today? I didn't think so. If you aren't getting them today, are you ready to go out and fight for them, starting now?
Here's how: First, let's make sure the FCC backs off any further loosening of the few media ownership protections we still have. This is not the time for more duopolies, triopolies and sweetheart newspaper-broadcast cross-ownership deals that strangle localism, diversity and competition.
Second, let's make FCC license approval and renewal into more than a paper tiger. That means enforcing the American Media Contract every time a media company comes in to renew a license or get a new one. No more postcard license renewals but instead a requirement for license-holders to prove they are fulfilling the Contract.
Third, give minorities a seat at the media table. Wait a minute-seat at the table? Why can't they own the table? Thirty per cent of our population cannot be consigned to owning three per cent of our broadcast outlets ? not unless we want another century of equal opportunity sham and shame.
Fourth, expand the number of media outlets in each community. That means more support for Low Power, PEG programmers and community wireless movements that defend the last bastions of localism as Big Media marches toward one-size-fits-all national programming and distribution.
Fifth, protect new forms of media from the awful consolidation that ensnared traditional media. The Internet can be truly transformative ? or it can become another network monopoly. Does everyone here tonight support Network Neutrality?
It's up to you and me, brothers and sisters. Things aren't going to change without you. They can change with you. You beat Michael Powell's Rules for Media Catastrophe three years ago. Who thought that would happen? Who says citizen action can't succeed in America? I see so much enthusiasm here in Memphis this week. I've seen it all across the country, in blue states and red, among liberals and conservatives, Democrats and Republicans.
At hearings wherever we go, my colleague Jonathan Adelstein and I talk with people who are just plain out of patience with a status quo that serves them so poorly; angry about what they get for half a trillion dollars; and telling us with a new urgency to do something about it. We accept that charge. We welcome it. And now, with you, we want to take it a step further. Together, we're going to guarantee that our airwaves serve their masters we, the people. It's all there in the American Media Contract. Take that Contract down to your broadcasters and let them know you expect them to follow it. Go out and talk about it, write about it, sing about it, blog about it. Sign up everyone you can and let your representatives know how much this means to you. Act like your future depends on it because it does!
This may actually be one of those wonderful moments in our nation's passage when great things can actually be accomplished. And you in this audience advocates, students, academics, public officials, journalists, entrepreneurs, creative content producers, and many more citizens all are the agents of that change. You are the instruments to make it happen. And when Free Press and all of us come together again in a forum like this, we can have something really sweet. It's called media democracy. All in favor, say "Aye."
Copps Unveils New American Media Contract
FCC Commissioner Announces Plan to Replace 'Bad Old Media Bargain' with Agenda for a More Democratic Media
FCC Commissioner Michael J. Copps tonight challenged thousands gathered at the National Conference for Media Reform to enact a new "American Media Contract," calling for citizens to stand up and "get rid of the bad old rules that got us into this mess in the first place."
Commissioner Copps will discuss the "American Media Contract" and answer questions at 9 a.m. on Saturday morning at a panel in the ballroom of the Memphis Cook Convention Center.
The text of Commissioner Copps' remarks follows:
Half a trillion dollars. That's a conservative valuation of the airwaves that our country lets TV and radio broadcasters use for free. Any way you slice it, that's an awful lot of money. In fact, it's just about the biggest chunk of change that our government gives to any private industry.
And what do the American people who own the public airwaves, by the way get in return? Too little news, too much baloney passed off as news. Too little quality entertainment, too many people eating bugs on reality TV. Too little local and regional music, too much brain-numbing national play-lists. Too little of America, too much of Wall Street and Madison Avenue. That's what we get for half a trillion dollars. It's one hell of a bad bargain, don't you think?
I don't know about you. But I'm sick of this bargain and I'm sick of playing defense. So I'm not here tonight to talk about defeating bad new media ownership rules ? although we still need to do that. I'm here to say it's time that we all get off our duffs with a real agenda. Let's get rid of the bad old rules that got us into this mess in the first place. And let's go on from there to bring tough I'm talking really tough here public interest obligations back to those who use the spectrum you own.
Here's one way we can shift from defense to offense one way to demand that the nation's media moguls hold up their end of the bargain with the American people.
I'm here to propose that we replace the bad old bargain that past FCCs struck with the media moguls with a new American Media Contract. It goes like this. We, the American people have given broadcasters free use of the nation's most valuable spectrum, and we expect something in return. We expect this:
1. A right to media that strengthens our democracy
2. A right to local stations that are actually local
3. A right to media that looks and sounds like America
4. A right to news that isn't canned and radio playlists that aren't for sale
5. A right to programming that isn't so damned bad so damned often
And, by the way, you have already paid for this with the half trillion dollars you gave the media giants so you deserve all this on free-over-the-air TV and radio.
Are any of you in this room getting all five of these today? I didn't think so. If you aren't getting them today, are you ready to go out and fight for them, starting now?
Here's how: First, let's make sure the FCC backs off any further loosening of the few media ownership protections we still have. This is not the time for more duopolies, triopolies and sweetheart newspaper-broadcast cross-ownership deals that strangle localism, diversity and competition.
Second, let's make FCC license approval and renewal into more than a paper tiger. That means enforcing the American Media Contract every time a media company comes in to renew a license or get a new one. No more postcard license renewals but instead a requirement for license-holders to prove they are fulfilling the Contract.
Third, give minorities a seat at the media table. Wait a minute-seat at the table? Why can't they own the table? Thirty per cent of our population cannot be consigned to owning three per cent of our broadcast outlets ? not unless we want another century of equal opportunity sham and shame.
Fourth, expand the number of media outlets in each community. That means more support for Low Power, PEG programmers and community wireless movements that defend the last bastions of localism as Big Media marches toward one-size-fits-all national programming and distribution.
Fifth, protect new forms of media from the awful consolidation that ensnared traditional media. The Internet can be truly transformative ? or it can become another network monopoly. Does everyone here tonight support Network Neutrality?
It's up to you and me, brothers and sisters. Things aren't going to change without you. They can change with you. You beat Michael Powell's Rules for Media Catastrophe three years ago. Who thought that would happen? Who says citizen action can't succeed in America? I see so much enthusiasm here in Memphis this week. I've seen it all across the country, in blue states and red, among liberals and conservatives, Democrats and Republicans.
At hearings wherever we go, my colleague Jonathan Adelstein and I talk with people who are just plain out of patience with a status quo that serves them so poorly; angry about what they get for half a trillion dollars; and telling us with a new urgency to do something about it. We accept that charge. We welcome it. And now, with you, we want to take it a step further. Together, we're going to guarantee that our airwaves serve their masters we, the people. It's all there in the American Media Contract. Take that Contract down to your broadcasters and let them know you expect them to follow it. Go out and talk about it, write about it, sing about it, blog about it. Sign up everyone you can and let your representatives know how much this means to you. Act like your future depends on it because it does!
This may actually be one of those wonderful moments in our nation's passage when great things can actually be accomplished. And you in this audience advocates, students, academics, public officials, journalists, entrepreneurs, creative content producers, and many more citizens all are the agents of that change. You are the instruments to make it happen. And when Free Press and all of us come together again in a forum like this, we can have something really sweet. It's called media democracy. All in favor, say "Aye."
#85
Another good op-ed from today
We Are What We Read and See. Too Bad it's not the Truth
by Timothy V. Gatto
Just exactly how much of what we see, hear, and read in our newspapers, magazines, radio and television is the truth? How do we separate truth from fiction when we are exposed to media outlets (and there are more everyday as the alternate media grows) that are not mainstream media? Why do we see unnerving patterns of what we see on the MSM and what we can read about on the alternative media?
These questions are no longer quaint and just remarkable, they can mean the difference in whether or not you vote on way or another, or make plans to ride out the "tough times" in the country you live in or pack up and head for greener pastures. The disparity of what we read in the MSM and what we read in the Alternate media is the akin to the difference of looking through rose covered glasses, or seeing reality through the eyes of someone that has witnessed a portion of Dante's Inferno. The difference can be that great.
Let's take a stay at home woman (or man) who for one reason or another doesn't get out much. During the day she/he might read the local paper, turn on the today show, watch Martha Stewart and then turn on "The View". They may finish with Dr. Phil, Oprah or Judge Judy, and all through the day not hear of a sinister threat or right that has been taken away by the government or any highly controversial subject at all. They might be exposed to pictures of soldiers walking down a Baghdad street and politicians arguing civilly about he war, but they will not see most of the duplicity of everyday politics. The evening news will be a tepid short half hour of what they already know that happened during the day, and the world that these people live in will not seem too much different that the world of 40 years ago
What these people don't generally know is that the mainstream Media s owned and operated by only a handful of powerful companies. Their politicians are controlled to a large extent by super-wealthy multinational corporations that spend three times as much as the people do supporting and electing the politicians that are supposed to "serve the people". Police departments are no longer hometown folks that patrol mostly their own communities, but servants of "agencies" that switch allegiance to whomever pays the most or gives the best benefits. These agencies are usually run by people immersed in right wing politics and have very specific political agendas.
What is happening is that not only sources of information are limited by people that don't really want the public to know the entire story about anything, the agencies and the government bureaus that are set up to be the watchdogs of the rights of citizens are controlled and manipulated by these very same people. If you run into a "stonewall" with a question or investigation, that stonewall is now wider and more impenetrable than it was 40 years ago. There are issues that you can look at right now. The Patriot Act is one. How many people truly think that the Patriot Act actually helps the individual citizen? If you talk to your neighbors and co-workers as I have (and I live in a "red state") you will not find many supporters. The war in Iraq is another. Over 60% of Americans want our troops home. When you write your Congress people or attempt to see them, what is your success rate? If you write them, they usually just tell you what they are going to do and thank you for writing. Do they say they will change their minds? Of course not. Can you get to see them? Usually not. Do you feel that you have a voice in government? I don't.
The alternate media is slowly making it's mark. The problem we have here is that the Alternate media too is being bought by corporate and political interests. The Democratic party has been in the forefront in buying up what were once progressive web sites. Some web sites are now mouthpieces for the DNC that were once respected, independent sites that printed all sides of controversial subjects. People that visit the Progressive sites know which ones I'm talking about. We must be more than ever, vigilant and independent. The best way to understand if you are reading the truth or if you are being conned, is to "follow the money". A well financed site that doesn't ask for contributions usually is not a place where you will read unbiased articles. Somebody is paying their bills. Also be careful of misinformation. I myself got caught the other day on what I believe is a hoax although I might be wrong, about the Secretary of the Treasury getting arrested by the Germans on an International Court Warrant. Thank my lucky stars that I said in my article that it might be a giant scam. The truth is still not known, but at this point I believe it to be a scam.
What I'm saying is that only a few people or organizations control the majority of what people read, hear and see. The first move by an authoritarian government is to control the media. We can't turn the clock back to a simpler easier time, but we can demand Congressional Oversight of interests that monopolize the media. I don't want Rupert Murdoch teaching out citizens what is important and what's not. There must be more competition in the medai. Even PBS is controlled by Archer Daniels Midland Group "ADM: Supermarket to the World". You would think that they were the new corporate messiah the way they fund PBS programs, when in fact they employ huge amounts of illegal immigrants and have bought up private farms and are really the "Wal-mart" of the Agribusiness sector. People need to understand. These people sell geneticall altered food and their soil is a really a kind of chemical powder.This has been reported to me by people I trust. These people try to gain your trust by advertising on PBS, not because they believe in it, but to influence intelligent people. Be wary, our very lives depend on it.
Just ask yourself this question. Every poll in the US reports that 60% of Americans want us out of Iraq. Why are we not making plans to leave Iraq? What is the magic formula for getting out government to get us out of a war we don't want to be in? You tell me and we'll both know. There is a breakdown here. The breakdown is that the government no longer must listen to it's people. As long as there are entities out there that will "spin" all the news and keep us in the dark, all the polls in the world will accomplish nothing. The people have lost control. Democracy has become an illusion "spun" by the media. Where was the media while the Bill of Rights was destroyed by the Military Commissions Act of 2006? This will go down in history as THE law that trashed our Democtacy. Still think we have a responsible Congress or Media? Think again. I don't make this stuff up.
We Are What We Read and See. Too Bad it's not the Truth
by Timothy V. Gatto
Just exactly how much of what we see, hear, and read in our newspapers, magazines, radio and television is the truth? How do we separate truth from fiction when we are exposed to media outlets (and there are more everyday as the alternate media grows) that are not mainstream media? Why do we see unnerving patterns of what we see on the MSM and what we can read about on the alternative media?
These questions are no longer quaint and just remarkable, they can mean the difference in whether or not you vote on way or another, or make plans to ride out the "tough times" in the country you live in or pack up and head for greener pastures. The disparity of what we read in the MSM and what we read in the Alternate media is the akin to the difference of looking through rose covered glasses, or seeing reality through the eyes of someone that has witnessed a portion of Dante's Inferno. The difference can be that great.
Let's take a stay at home woman (or man) who for one reason or another doesn't get out much. During the day she/he might read the local paper, turn on the today show, watch Martha Stewart and then turn on "The View". They may finish with Dr. Phil, Oprah or Judge Judy, and all through the day not hear of a sinister threat or right that has been taken away by the government or any highly controversial subject at all. They might be exposed to pictures of soldiers walking down a Baghdad street and politicians arguing civilly about he war, but they will not see most of the duplicity of everyday politics. The evening news will be a tepid short half hour of what they already know that happened during the day, and the world that these people live in will not seem too much different that the world of 40 years ago
What these people don't generally know is that the mainstream Media s owned and operated by only a handful of powerful companies. Their politicians are controlled to a large extent by super-wealthy multinational corporations that spend three times as much as the people do supporting and electing the politicians that are supposed to "serve the people". Police departments are no longer hometown folks that patrol mostly their own communities, but servants of "agencies" that switch allegiance to whomever pays the most or gives the best benefits. These agencies are usually run by people immersed in right wing politics and have very specific political agendas.
What is happening is that not only sources of information are limited by people that don't really want the public to know the entire story about anything, the agencies and the government bureaus that are set up to be the watchdogs of the rights of citizens are controlled and manipulated by these very same people. If you run into a "stonewall" with a question or investigation, that stonewall is now wider and more impenetrable than it was 40 years ago. There are issues that you can look at right now. The Patriot Act is one. How many people truly think that the Patriot Act actually helps the individual citizen? If you talk to your neighbors and co-workers as I have (and I live in a "red state") you will not find many supporters. The war in Iraq is another. Over 60% of Americans want our troops home. When you write your Congress people or attempt to see them, what is your success rate? If you write them, they usually just tell you what they are going to do and thank you for writing. Do they say they will change their minds? Of course not. Can you get to see them? Usually not. Do you feel that you have a voice in government? I don't.
The alternate media is slowly making it's mark. The problem we have here is that the Alternate media too is being bought by corporate and political interests. The Democratic party has been in the forefront in buying up what were once progressive web sites. Some web sites are now mouthpieces for the DNC that were once respected, independent sites that printed all sides of controversial subjects. People that visit the Progressive sites know which ones I'm talking about. We must be more than ever, vigilant and independent. The best way to understand if you are reading the truth or if you are being conned, is to "follow the money". A well financed site that doesn't ask for contributions usually is not a place where you will read unbiased articles. Somebody is paying their bills. Also be careful of misinformation. I myself got caught the other day on what I believe is a hoax although I might be wrong, about the Secretary of the Treasury getting arrested by the Germans on an International Court Warrant. Thank my lucky stars that I said in my article that it might be a giant scam. The truth is still not known, but at this point I believe it to be a scam.
What I'm saying is that only a few people or organizations control the majority of what people read, hear and see. The first move by an authoritarian government is to control the media. We can't turn the clock back to a simpler easier time, but we can demand Congressional Oversight of interests that monopolize the media. I don't want Rupert Murdoch teaching out citizens what is important and what's not. There must be more competition in the medai. Even PBS is controlled by Archer Daniels Midland Group "ADM: Supermarket to the World". You would think that they were the new corporate messiah the way they fund PBS programs, when in fact they employ huge amounts of illegal immigrants and have bought up private farms and are really the "Wal-mart" of the Agribusiness sector. People need to understand. These people sell geneticall altered food and their soil is a really a kind of chemical powder.This has been reported to me by people I trust. These people try to gain your trust by advertising on PBS, not because they believe in it, but to influence intelligent people. Be wary, our very lives depend on it.
Just ask yourself this question. Every poll in the US reports that 60% of Americans want us out of Iraq. Why are we not making plans to leave Iraq? What is the magic formula for getting out government to get us out of a war we don't want to be in? You tell me and we'll both know. There is a breakdown here. The breakdown is that the government no longer must listen to it's people. As long as there are entities out there that will "spin" all the news and keep us in the dark, all the polls in the world will accomplish nothing. The people have lost control. Democracy has become an illusion "spun" by the media. Where was the media while the Bill of Rights was destroyed by the Military Commissions Act of 2006? This will go down in history as THE law that trashed our Democtacy. Still think we have a responsible Congress or Media? Think again. I don't make this stuff up.
#86
Originally posted by: hondabuster<Just ask yourself this question. Every poll in the US reports that 60% of Americans want us out of Iraq. Why are we not making plans to leave Iraq? What is the magic formula for getting out government to get us out of a war we don't want to be in? You tell me and we'll both know. There is a breakdown here. The breakdown is that the government no longer must listen to it's people.
Another thing is we wouldn't need ANYONE in Washington if we went by popular vote, people could just vote on the computer the night before on whatever issues and that would be the direction our country goes.
This is why we vote in people. I for sure don't agree with everything Bush has done, but I sure as heck couldn't have done a better job. It is easy for people in the streets of Minnesota to say "Send our troops home now", but it is another thing to have the military inteligence in front of you and know what must be done, even if it isn't the poplular thing.
#87
Who Cares, Lets Ride.
When they come here to kill the libs it may be a good thing. Remember this, they are going to Iraq to fight now. When we pull back and we will because the Dems have control of the monies now, they will see this as a defeat. Then they will come here and the 1st ones on there hit list are those that don't believe in god then those who don't believe in their god. I'm part of the later and I will fight back. Because I am not a pacifist.
Oh and I dont like tree hugger either.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]
What was the question?[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]
When they come here to kill the libs it may be a good thing. Remember this, they are going to Iraq to fight now. When we pull back and we will because the Dems have control of the monies now, they will see this as a defeat. Then they will come here and the 1st ones on there hit list are those that don't believe in god then those who don't believe in their god. I'm part of the later and I will fight back. Because I am not a pacifist.
Oh and I dont like tree hugger either.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]
What was the question?[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]
#88
This is why we vote in people. I for sure don't agree with everything Bush has done, but I sure as heck couldn't have done a better job. It is easy for people in the streets of Minnesota to say "Send our troops home now", but it is another thing to have the military inteligence in front of you and know what must be done, even if it isn't the poplular thing.
#89
Originally posted by: cave
Who Cares, Lets Ride.
When they come here to kill the libs it may be a good thing. Remember this, they are going to Iraq to fight now. When we pull back and we will because the Dems have control of the monies now, they will see this as a defeat. Then they will come here and the 1st ones on there hit list are those that don't believe in god then those who don't believe in their god. I'm part of the later and I will fight back. Because I am not a pacifist.
Oh and I dont like tree hugger either.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]
What was the question?[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]
Who Cares, Lets Ride.
When they come here to kill the libs it may be a good thing. Remember this, they are going to Iraq to fight now. When we pull back and we will because the Dems have control of the monies now, they will see this as a defeat. Then they will come here and the 1st ones on there hit list are those that don't believe in god then those who don't believe in their god. I'm part of the later and I will fight back. Because I am not a pacifist.
Oh and I dont like tree hugger either.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]
What was the question?[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]
We will be in Iraq long after all of us here are dead. We cant leave or the Indians or Chinese will grab the oil...we just happened to get there first, and thats the only reason we went. Well that, and the iraqis and now the iranians want the oil to be sold in Euros...not dollars. That would likewise destroy America.
Our entire way of life will die if we dont guard the oil...thats why were there, and thats why we cant leave. Doesnt matter if youre dem or rep, the leaders of the country know why were there, and thats why when we get a spunky new representative in office and they call for withdrawl, its just a matter of time, until cheny and crew read him the riot act, and the newbie fall inline....we are there for the long haul. Its just postureing, and actors playing a role, when we do the so called argument about leaving.
#90
Originally posted by: hondabuster
Dont think for a moment we will ever leave Iraq. Doesnt matter whos in charge, we only have two choices(dem and rep) and they are both on the same side. Its the big american myth that we have an opposition party.
We will be in Iraq long after all of us here are dead. We cant leave or the Indians or Chinese will grab the oil...we just happened to get there first, and thats the only reason we went. Well that, and the iraqis and now the iranians want the oil to be sold in Euros...not dollars. That would likewise destroy America.
Our entire way of life will die if we dont guard the oil...thats why were there, and thats why we cant leave. Doesnt matter if youre dem or rep, the leaders of the country know why were there, and thats why when we get a spunky new representative in office and they call for withdrawl, its just a matter of time, until cheny and crew read him the riot act, and the newbie fall inline....we are there for the long haul. Its just postureing, and actors playing a role, when we do the so called argument about leaving.
Originally posted by: cave
Who Cares, Lets Ride.
When they come here to kill the libs it may be a good thing. Remember this, they are going to Iraq to fight now. When we pull back and we will because the Dems have control of the monies now, they will see this as a defeat. Then they will come here and the 1st ones on there hit list are those that don't believe in god then those who don't believe in their god. I'm part of the later and I will fight back. Because I am not a pacifist.
Oh and I dont like tree hugger either.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]
What was the question?[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]
Who Cares, Lets Ride.
When they come here to kill the libs it may be a good thing. Remember this, they are going to Iraq to fight now. When we pull back and we will because the Dems have control of the monies now, they will see this as a defeat. Then they will come here and the 1st ones on there hit list are those that don't believe in god then those who don't believe in their god. I'm part of the later and I will fight back. Because I am not a pacifist.
Oh and I dont like tree hugger either.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]
What was the question?[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]
We will be in Iraq long after all of us here are dead. We cant leave or the Indians or Chinese will grab the oil...we just happened to get there first, and thats the only reason we went. Well that, and the iraqis and now the iranians want the oil to be sold in Euros...not dollars. That would likewise destroy America.
Our entire way of life will die if we dont guard the oil...thats why were there, and thats why we cant leave. Doesnt matter if youre dem or rep, the leaders of the country know why were there, and thats why when we get a spunky new representative in office and they call for withdrawl, its just a matter of time, until cheny and crew read him the riot act, and the newbie fall inline....we are there for the long haul. Its just postureing, and actors playing a role, when we do the so called argument about leaving.


