Hey guys, this is my first post and I am looking for some advise.

My son is 13 years old (about 5-7 and 170 pounds). He is mentally retarded. He can not read or write and has limited vocabulary. That is the bad. There is plenty of good, one of which is that his balance is good and he has been riding a dirt bike since he was four. He started on a 50 then moved to a 70 and then to an 80. He is VERY skilled on a dirt bike. He can follow me all day long and pretty much go anywhere I care to go and he rarely falls or crashes. He is big enough and strong enough to ride a 150 dirt bike.

The 50 and 70 had auto clutches. The 80 is a manual as well as all bigger bikes. When he first started riding the 80, he did not use the clutch, he just slammed it in gear and then it stalled every time he stopped. This actually worked pretty good and he road like this for about a year and a half. Then I taught him to use the clutch and now he uses it just fine, but he still doesn't know to down shift.

The result is, every time he stops he is in 4th or 5th gear, then he slips the clutch to get going and in about one hour the clutch is toast. He has burned three clutches in three trips.

I have tried to teach him to downshift when going slow, when stopping and when going up hills but have not had any success (been trying for 9 years now). I am sure that eventually he will learn this concept but it will probably take at least a year maybe two. I can not keep replacing clutches at the rate of one per hour.

So, I have been looking at a Can-AM DS 250 for him with the fully automatic transmission. But I have a few concerns.....

One I am worried about his safety. I have never been into quads and did not like riding them the few times I did. I believe they are more dangerous than dirt bikes due to the weight and shorter wheelbase. Additionally, I have had a few friends seriously hurt on quads as well as the son of a friend. In contrast, I am the only guy I know that has been hurt on a dirt bike.

My son has ridden a small quad in the past (70cc) and he really enjoyed it. Now he is definitely big enough and strong enough to handle the DS 250 but the riding style is different and I am concerned that when he is riding with his older sister and friends on their dirt bikes, and they give it the gas, he will too like he has on his dirt bike and basically "over ride" the quad and get kicked off of it as in bounces over the whoops.

My question is, are my fears misplaced? Im I being irrational to have no problem with him on a dirt bike but concerned about him on a quad? With nine+ years of riding under his belt do you think he would do OK on a quad for a few years? Or do you think his prior dirt bike experience might actually hurt him when it comes to riding a quad?

Thanks

 

From what you have said it sounds like he will do OK on a quad. His skill level will be much different that most kids and it sounds like you have a good handle on what he can and cannot do. Unlike dirtbikes, when you get into quads you will find very few these days with a true manual clutch system. Except for sport bikes, most are either auto clutch or full automatic.

Obviously, an automatic will not give him any of the downshifting problems that he now has. Automatics are reliable, easy to use and more forgiving for unskilled operation than a clutch. Almost all come with a decent engine braking sytem which is an added plus for safety. I guess the single biggest downside is that if you get him an automatic then he will never learn downshifting.

If he gets an auto clutch, then if he does keep in the habit of leaving it in top gear then the quad will stall out - I don't think there will be much harm to the auto-clutch system. This may be the best way to go to eventually teach him manual shifting. The thing is, if it turns out that he likes quads better, then there is no real need to learn manual shift as like I said, most are auto or auto clutch. One model that can offer both is the Honda 250. It can be run as an auto clutch or as a full clutch. I've never ridden one so I'm not sure if that would make things more confusing for him.

As a side note - do you use any kind of helmet radio when you ride? We use then to this day but got them originally as a training aid for the kids. It made a big difference to be able to talk them through something immediately.

Jaybee

 

Thank you for the input.

I went back and looked at the DS250 again and noticed that it has a throttle limiter screw. I also found out that I can widen the front track a couple of inches by using wheel spacers from a Rhino. Both of these facts have eased my "fears" a bit.

I love the Honda TRX250EX. It has the perfect clutch design to teach someone to shift. My buddy has one for his wife. My concern is that I still wonder how well that clutch would hold up if it were in 5th gear for hours at a time. Salesman said it would be no problem but I would not expect him to say anything else.

Another option along those lines would be a used 2000-2001 Honda 250. Those bikes had three speeds and an auto clutch.

The helmet to helmet radio is a very good idea.

What brand do you have?

Thanks

 

We use the Collett radios - http://www.collett.mb.ca/

Not cheap but they work well. Just took a quick look at their page and they're $170 each right now. For us, being able to tell the kids to STOP! at any time, or to talk them through a tough area made them more than worth the cost.

A 2000 to 2001 Honda 250 would be the Recon - that's a 5-speed autoclutch. Good bike. Overall it sounds like a full automatic would be the best for your son to ride. You should be able to limit the throttle on just about any model out there with just a little mod work. As I said above, the only downside I can see to the auto is that he would then never learn full shifting.

Jaybee

 

I have a TRX for my youngest son. He isn't exactly the most coordinated person on the planet, and I thought that would be about right for him. However in your case, the advantage of a full auto would be worth considering. You already are traveling down the right path with the throttle limiter and wheel spacers. You might also consider some of the nerf bars for added safety too.

Now for the tough decision. If you think a quad is as safe as a dirt bike, the answer is NO. They have two different dynamics. First of all, turning a dirt bike depends on leaning and putting your foot out/down to use as a lever and for stability. You do that with a quad, and you will run over your leg at best, break something at worse.

When crashing, the rider and dirt bike tend to follow different paths. On quads, the rider and machine tend to travel in the same path. A kid's body versus metal machine and the kid loses. You can mitigate that with gear, slower speed etc, but the truth is, you cannot make a quad as safe as a dirt bike.

With that being said, I feel comfortable with my kids on one. I have raised two and my youngest is now riding. (13). Even without the handicap, my son makes some poor judgement calls on his machine. It happens.

It is hard for us to judge your son's abilities and understand just how well he listens to you when he is out in the field... You will have to do the evaluaiton on that.

I feel the sport is as safe as anything else. he could fall out of a boat if you take him fishing. he can fall and get hurt on a bicycle too... Done in moderation, under controlled conditions, I think it might be worth giving it a go.. but obviously he will take a while to get used to it, and he will need to throttle back for a while.

There is nothing that carries over from the dirt bike, and he needs to understand that. The fact is it may make the transition harder. I would Not go any bigger than the 250 though. That bike should last him a long time.
You might also check out a chatterbox set up for communications.

Lastly, I know of several families that have children that have various handicaps. finding a comfort level takes time, but could be a great thing for skill development and therapy.

Good luck with the decisions, and welcome to the sport. give your son a hug and share a picture with us if you decide to go ahead. I want to see that smile on his face.

 

Draginbut,

Thank you for the input. Yes nerf bars are a must for him. You hit the nail on the head as to why I dont run out and buy him a quad today. I know they are not as "safe" as motorcycles if you can call motorcycles safe.

Dave has ridden quads in the past for a short little test ride around camp when he was younger and he did fine. He is actually a very skilled bike rider. He rarely falls and if the other kids are jumping he will jump also (6"-8" of air). Not much, but fun for him.

As I have looked into quads a bit more I have narrowed my focus to three, Can Am DS 250 - fully automatic, Suzuki Quadsport 250 - Auto clutch with foot shift, and Honda TRX - Sport clutch.

Dave is fully capable of riding all three so I am focusing really on the Suzuki and Honda. I love Hondas and like the sport clutch as a means to teach him to shift properly in the future but to my knowledge it does not have the throttle limiter. I have read some very positive reviews of the Suzuki, sales man loves it over the Honda and I like the throttle limiter.

I am still thinking about it but in the end I do not see where I have much choice. My family rides, Dave is too big for a 70 or KLX110. They do not make a larger automatic bike. The Rekluse auto clutch will not help in his situation. I can not afford to replace his clutch every hour. We are not going to stop riding.

So what/where does that leave me? Dave will probably be on a quad in the next month or so. I will limit his speed until I am comfortable with his judgement/abilities and revisit a dirt bike for him at a later date.

Or so I think. Still time to roll it around in my head.

Thanks again

Ride Safe.

 

That seems like a wel lthought out plan. Like I said, my son has the TRX250, and the sport clutch is a great item as it gives him flexability to learn without killing the bike all the time. My son also has problems with remembering to down shift, and other than on a steep inline, it hasn't been a problem so far... but it is fairly new. I am not sure if you can adapt a throtle stop to teh Honda though. It may be worth looking into if you really want a Honda. When you think about it, they are merely a cable and a thumbscrew. If the swaged ends are compatable, the throttles just slip over the end of the bars so it may be easier than you think to mount one.

I have no experience with the Bombardier. I don't hear a lot of complaints about them, but I don't see a lot of guys riding them either. The dealers aroun dhere all sell them, so they are available, but I think like you that perhaps the fully auto may seem less manly or something... maybe it is part of the experience that people feel they miss. Hard to say. I have it on my Rubicon, and love it. My wife has it on her Grizzly and she loves it. I know fully automatics have made it possible to get people that otherwise would never ride out on the trail because they don't have to worry about shifting etc.. so I think they are a good thing.
I know the dealer is steering you towards the Suzuki, but he may just be listening to what you are saying and may be influenced by your personal preferences. I'd still take a look at teh Bombardier if that has all the features you are looking for, and you have a dealer support network close by. It certainly sounds like it has everything you are looking for. I have never owned one, but I have owned Ski-doo snowmobiles and the old Can-AM dirt bikes. I found them well built at the time, and the Rotax engine was just as bullet proof as my Honda. I had zero issues with it and I abused them dearly. Well except the time I clipped a hidden rock at about 60 MPH and broke a ski off... but I can't blame the machine for that.

You need to put brand predjudice away and look at what will be best for your son and easiest for him to use and enjoy. Shifting is going to be an issue that will never go away. If he gets more enjoyment out of a fully automatic versus getting frustrated with shifting and parts replacement, I think you have your answer.

The great thing about riding quads together as a family is that you all share the esperience. Reduce his frustration, and the subsequent family reaction, and I think you are opening yourself up for more enjoyment.

It sounds like you want him to ride a dirt bike, but because he is getting bigger, and because of the parts breakage, you are looking for something else that keeps him involved. Unfortunately the dirt bike industry is not going to ever have an automatic, and I think a quad will fill the bill. He is going to really enjoy it when it turns wet and all teh dirt bikes have to give up. That is when quads get really fun. Just a question though, do you have an ATV or intend to get one for yourself? If you don't have one, you might consider it. I think you will be surprised. There used ot be a big gap in performance, and to a certain extent that will always be the case, but modern quads, especially the high end sports models are pretty darn near close. They do a lot of things that you can't do on a dirt bike. Sliding is very fun. It is a different experience, but one that you can find new ways to enjoy.

What I haven't told you is that I too have a handicap. I crushed my right leg and have screws, plates, rods etc holding it all together. I can't kick start a bike anymore. But I can hit the electric start with the best of them. I don't ride dirt bikes any more because frankly, I stand a good chance of breaking what is left of my bone structure in the leg if I were to stick my boot in a mud hole or something. So Quads have made it possible for me to keep having fun. I am not going to grow up, so it is my release. Although I'd love to be out on a dirt bike, and frankly I drool over the new MX bikes, I can't start them, and I can't stand on the pegs any more either so that part of my life has been put behind me. At some point, I reckon I'd end up in a Rhino putting around in the dirt when I can't ride the quad any more. But I am a long way away from that.

 

Thanks again for all the input.

I think I have decided that IF we get him a quad it will be the Honda TRX250EX because all of the controls are the same as a bike. ie...left lever is clutch, right is brake, right foot is brake, left is shift. The Suzuki and Can Am are nice but the left lever is a brake on both of those and I want to minimize the confusion.

The Honda does not come with a throttle stop screw but the one on the 90 can be installed or the stock one on the 250 can be drilled and tapped for one. I'll try the drill and tap first, if I mess it up then I will buy the $42 part off the 90.

I have also found sources for wheel spacers and nerf bars.

I talked to a close friend who's son has been seriously hurt on a quad but still rides a quad and he had eased my concerns quite a bit.

I looked at new 250s but even getting a "deal" I am looking at over $4000 OTD and they are available on Craig's list for $2500 all day long. I am not in a big hurry and I think the economy is doing to take a bigger dive. I am going to put together $2000 cash and then go bargain hunting for an 07.

 

Well good for you then. It sounds like you have thought things through. You didn't say if you intend to get one for yourself though. Ya got to try it...