I was just wondering why no one is coming out with any new high powered 5 speeds like the automatics. I love to shift and automatics are just too easy for me. The biggest 5 speed is the honda 450s and now they have 650's. I want a new shifting atv. What do you all think?

 

Actually, the Honda 450 is NOT the biggest manual machine-there's still the 500 Manual 'Cat! Doesn't Suzuki have a 500 shifter too??? I agree with you though, with all the new machines coming out, you'd think they'd keep the manuals around, just add the auto's as another option, rather than the "norm".

Mike

 

Actually, the Raptor 660 is the largest shifter. Currently it is the largest motor in any production ATV, at least any that I know of.

 

OH I forgot about the cats and suzuki, sorry. I am talking about utility type atv's. And I still think there should be more 5 speeds.

 

Hey, no problem! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img] I do agree with you though-you'd think that for utility machines, they'd definately keep the gears around. As the machines get bigger, the ability to haul/tow more increases as well. It won't be too long before the machine gets bigger and more capable of jobs that the belts can't handle-or that the auto gears (honda Ruby) don't like either. Cases like those, a manual is hard to beat-just like a pickup towing a 10,000 lbs. trailer, sure a auto could do it, but I'd prefer to drive a 6-speed! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

Honestly though, I still can't believe how much, and what, my Auto 'Cat can pull. Sometimes, it trully amazes me. Happy trails!

Mike

 

<< Hey, no problem! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img] I do agree with you though-you'd think that for utility machines, they'd definately keep the gears around. As the machines get bigger, the ability to haul/tow more increases as well. It won't be too long before the machine gets bigger and more capable of jobs that the belts can't handle-or that the auto gears (honda Ruby) don't like either. Cases like those, a manual is hard to beat-just like a pickup towing a 10,000 lbs. trailer, sure a auto could do it, but I'd prefer to drive a 6-speed! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

Honestly though, I still can't believe how much, and what, my Auto 'Cat can pull. Sometimes, it trully amazes me. Happy trails!

Mike >>


Accually an auto is better for a utility quad. It is always in the power band and it is a real pain shifting when the field or trail gets real bumpy.

As far as towing with a pick up 70% of pickups are towing with autos. Go to a Towing company and see how many manuals they have. Not any.
Wayne B
Wayne B

 

I agree with you completely about the ease of the automatic while towing, and not having to shift on atv's. I guess my point was the belt design can only handle so much weight. As the machines get bigger, with the ability to tow more, I forsee more belt slippage or clutch problems with the auto's. I don't know however if that would happen though, as the machine only weighs up to 700 lbs. for the heavy machines like the SP's, or a max of around 750 for the Traxter -I think??? Eventually you'll come to a point that no matter how heavy of a load you are trying to pull, your quad will just sit there and spin it's tires, digging holes. In those situations, I think the belt would suffer and that gears would be better. Again though, it is SOOOO nice towing and hauling things around with my 'Cat (auto) and not having to shift gears-just hit the gas and go.

As for the towing, I have to disagree. Especially with the Towing company rigs-I worked for a tow company myself for a while, have three other buddies who did and one who still does. As a result, I often was either towing myself, or riding along on a tow. The company I worked for was/is the largest in the area, does a lot of jobs across the entire state in fact, and often down into Oregon as well. The reason is for the really big rigs. They have 2 one-ton Chev's and 2 one-ton Ford's -just your standard traditional pickup style tow truck. There are 3 International and one Ford roll-backs (big tilt flatbeds). A Freightliner for larger rigs, and a huge International, known as &quot;wild thing&quot; which has full outriggers, a huge boom and twin 20,000 lbs.(???) winches-the machine itself is capable of lifting and entire semi up in the air and setting it back upright on the wheels. It is one of two in the state of that size to my knowledge, which is why the company gets so many long-haul customers. BTW-fee for even turning the key on in one of the really big rigs is $300, then $300 for the first hour, $200 every hour after that! Semi rollovers get real expensive, real quick. Anyway, back to the manual/auto debate-can you guess how many of these rigs are auto's? None. The only auto anywhere around the company is the main bosses Ford Expedition, which drives him to and from work, and occassionally to the scene of an accident. My other buddies work for another tow company, out of the 7 trucks they have, only one is an auto, and it is hardly ever used-basically back-up emergencies only. The reason for this is there is far more control with a manual than an auto. With huge loads, the auto has problems shifting, you end up blowing trannies. Which, brings me to the pickup debate.

I'm sure you're probably right about 70% of the normal pickups on the road being automatics and towing. Hell, it could even be higher than that, I wouldn't be surprised. I think the reason is strictly ease of operation for the driver, not the actual strength of the machine. I've either towed or been in the rig while towing the same 4 horse slant load with extra large extended tack, all fully loaded and blown three automatic transmissions while towing-two uphill and one on the flat. And, as each of my buddies drives different rigs, you may be surprised to know that there was one from each manufacturer, so you can't place the blame on any one brand being &quot;weak&quot;. We broke one of each. That is definately NOT a fun thing to do-especially on a hill, when heading to or back from a rodeo or anywhere else in general. With a manual transmission, you put it in gear and go. Downshift if need be on the big hills to the gear that works the best in the &quot;ideal&quot; rpm range, and just leave it there till you get to the top and over, then upshift to get on your way. The auto will sit there and drop a gear to get the rpm's up, once they hit a certain point, it will upshift, yet with a huge load, that top gear can't pull such a load so you begin loosing speed-at which point, it downshifts and begins the cycle over again. This of course dependind on what type of tranny you're running, and who the operator is. The other thing with an auto is you never want to tow in overdrive, it's just too hard on the tranny with extremely heavy loads for an auto.

Myself, for the really big loads, I wouldn't even consider an automatic-well, until the new Duramax came out. I might drive one of those-definately want the manual version though!. The clutch is the weakest point with a manual tranny-that is what will give out first with improper driving. Auto's seem to blow no matter what or when-I've seen or heard about it too many times. The new Duramax though has a new &quot;tow&quot; mode, which when engaged, the computer sets the stall rating at a higher rpm range, so it will shift at a higher rpm when going up hill, to ensure that when it upshifts, it will have enough engine speed to carry that next higher gear. Going downhill it will set in one gear if you tap the breaks just once. Tap the break a second time, it will drop a gear for you, tap again, it will drop another gear-provided your rpm's are at a proper range, and won't risk blowing the engine, seals or tranny. It is a very &quot;smart&quot; design, seems to work quite well so far. I have a friend who tows a 10,000 lbs. trailer with his new Duramax auto and absolutely loves it. Until this came out, I wouldn't even consider an automatic transmission for towing extremely heavy loads-just more control with the manual. But then again, I guess in today's society it is rather difficult towing a large trailer with a manual transmission while talking on the cell phone and trying to eat your big-mac from the local mc-gag-n-bag. To each is own I guess.

Best of luck and Happy Trails,

Mike

 

cowboy
I know all the big towing companies around here (Wash DC area, worst traffic in the nation per the most resent AAA study) have autos on all their trucks, except the biggest ones. The biggest company has over 200 trucks around the beltway. They consists of F450's and Freightliner FL70's, All auto's. Anything bigger is a manual. The second largest company has about 150 trucks F-450's and Navistar trucks all auto's.
They both switched over to autos in the early 90's. They found that with proper maintainance that the autos were more dependable.
The mistake people make when towing with an auto is that they do not add a gauge to monitor the trans temp. 80% of trans failures while towing are due to over heating. I researched this before buying my Ford F-250 Super Duty with a Power Stroke Diesel and an Auto. I talked to all the towing companies in the area and they all said get an auto and FLUSH the trans fluid every 24,000 or two years and GET A TRANS TEMP GAUGE. I have done my home work on autos.
Wayne B

 

Aahhhhh-excellent point about the temp guage and trans cooler young grasshoppa! Didn't even think of that [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-blush.gif[/img] Guess I took it for granted-I put one on my lifted Chev pickup (auto) as I was running 38&quot; tires under it, I was having tranny problems before, put a brand new turbo 400 in it as well as a trans cooler, not one problem after that. Our suburban is an auto as well, I had a trans cooler put on it too, as well as one of my buddies older chevy pickups. With the cooler and monitoring temps, changing fluids religiously, no problems as of yet [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]. Man, when you say 200 trucks in a fleet-that's HUGE! Man, I'm sure glad I don't live in your neck of the woods. A traffic jam to me is about 5 trucks backed up behind a tractor-I'd go crazy out that way! Sure as hell glad I didn't run tow rigs out there either-that would be terrible with that many people running around-no wonder they have such high crime rates!

Anyway, best of luck and happy trails!

Mike