Hi all!

I'm contemplating some more mods to the ol' Warrior to improve bottom end performance.

Right now I have 12/40 gearing, 22" razr's, the fmf powercore slipon and stock everything else ..

Should I:

1. Replace the rear 40T sprocket with a 44T (this would help eliminate some of my chain slack caused by the 12T front). OR

2. Install a K & N or UNI filter. If I do this with an airbox mod, do I absolutely HAVE to rejet? I live below the 1000' ASL mark, more like 100' actually ...

Option 1 appeals to me because it's cheap and it fixes two problems at one time. Also, with the chain guard, if I install a 44T sprocket, will I get interference there and have to mod the chain guard too?

I'm not particularly interested in my top speed anymore knowing basically how fast the quad CAN be. I'm not usually up over 80km/h (50mph) anyway. I'm more interested in hills/jumps and wheelies, all of which require nice torque. Before I changed my front sproket to a 12T I found 3rd gear too high for good hill climbing. Haven't had a chance since I installed the new sproket.

Anyway .. sorry for the overlong post, but your responses would be greatly appreciated [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

Thanks,

Trev

 

Hey that wasnt a long post at all [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

It sounds like you have allready made mods that would add to the low end and the Warrior is mostly a low end quad to begin with so I am wondering if there could be something else thats causing a loss of low end power or maybe your desire isnt low end at all.

First I would do a compression test (mechanical) and confirm there isnt any compression loss or internal piston to cylinder problems or wear. Your quad looks fairly new but this is the best place to start and you get the added benefit of knowing how well its holding up etc. I am going from memory but I believe Yami recomends 135PSI and this info is avail from any manual etc.

Now if all checks out OK there I think its time to start thinking on what you are really wanting and what you have now.

Since the warrior isnt by any means a hi-tech quad the mods needed normally arent hi-tech either but you have to be able to understand that working within the basic limits of the engine will only allow so much potential gain and if youwant to go beyond that it gets very expensive etc. so I will stick to the basics and not get into any 400 or 450 kits.

I think from what you are saying that the problem may not be in low end grunt but mid to top power. The warrior in stock form has plenty of torque but lacks mid to top and your mods have added to the low end so the problem may be solved with just a gearing or tire size change. It also looks like you ride a lot in sand which robs power big time so keep that in mind also.

Since you have it geared so low its just not having the power you need in the mid to top so when you want to punch it to get over the lip of a jump or the top of a hill you run out of power too soon and theres nothing there, is that correct?

I have seen some very good results from swaping out the cam to a higher profile and that would help also but remember the engine was not designed to be a top end screamer and will not unless you dump over 2000.00 US into it and then its still not much better if any than the newer engines that are out.

The warrior is a great trail quad that can be used in other ways also but since I own one I know that when you see people doing crazy stuff on one its more the rider than the machine and the quad does have its limits. I love the low end torque and gearing on this machine and the way you can tackle obstacles at slow speeds (well a lot slower than I could on my Honda) while still being in the middle of the power etc. but I cant imagine trying to gear it down more as it would seem to me that it would lose all the snap above the lower rpms.

Just some thoughts but try working on the gearing and think about a cam since you have the basics like a pipe allready.

 

I dont' think I've got any problems with compression, but it's certainly worth checking.

I understand where you're coming from on the low-end vs. high-end thing now .... basically you're saying the the Warrior has great low end (RPM) torque, but not so dazzling high end (rpm) power, and so if I gear even lower than I am right now, then I'll be out of my good torque range even earlier and end up hurting my performance, correct?

Anyway .. bascially I take stuff on kina slow, like hill climbs. We dont' ahve big hills here, not like in the US, but let me see if I can clarify my ideas ...

When going up a long sand hill like I am on ocassionaly near my Grandmother's place, I can roast up the hill in 2nd and spin around and all kindsa fun stuff .. once I hit 3rd however the rate of spin steadily decreases until, if I let it, the bike stalls. Also, around my own home there are some nice jumps but with fairly short lead-ins .. so accelleration is a key to making a nice jump.

I haven't found, while leading into a jump, that when I punch the throttle for takeoff there's nothing there .. it's usually very snappy.

As I said before, I don't really do much of anything involving great speed .. my favourite thing to do on this long hill I'm talking about is stand on the grab bar and try and slowly wheelie my way up the hill .. the hill is about 65 - 75 feet high with a run of probably close to 200 or more feet .. I figure with lower gearing I can do that easier cuz the bike will be less likely to stall on me while going slow.

I'm also not much concerned with doing the tricks that some of the other better riders do. I have a strange affinity to keeping my bones in tact [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img] At 33, with a wife and two kids to take care of, my adrenaline junky days are over I think.

Thanks for your input on this. But basically .. with any clarifications you can get from the above, do you think i'd be better off with the gearing or the filter/box mods .. and also the jetting question .. is that absolutely required?

Thanks again,

Trev

 

go to a 44 tooth rear sprocket, put in a k&n filter, do a plug check for main jet and if all is ok then hold on. i know what 440ex026 is saying but i know this is not the problem. if you do change to this gearing you might have the problem he is saying if you dont know how to ride. you have to be able to judge hills with this gearing setup, you have to know whether or not to go up in 2nd or 3rd. i have run a 12-44 gearing setup on my stock warrior with not a single problem, and man did that thing pull my arms right off. ran fairly steep hills in third at around 6500rpm and was perfect for jumping, not to low ratio but not to high either. as i said though 440ex is right in what he says if you dont know where to shift at, if you are at say 7500rpms goin up hill and punch it and it doesnt seem to pull anymore that is where a better all around cam would be good. i absolutely hate the stock valve springs in the warrior, just changing those will make the machine a lot better.

 

Thanks guys for your responses.

I think I'll stick with my engine setup as-is right now and go with the 12/44 gearing. Like I said in my previous post, that mod is cheap, and if I don't like it so well .. it's easy to swap back to my 40T sprocket, since it's not worn at all.

If I find that I like the gearing setup, then I'll probably order the K & N filter, get a 155 main jet and do an airbox mod.

One thing that occurs to me on the main jet issue .. it's not very often that I'm held WOT, or even past 1/2 throttle .. the main jet probably won't do much for me in that case with regards to saving my engine since the main only operates past 3/4 throttle doesn't it?

Should do it anyway I guess to be safe .. after I do a plug check of course.

Thanks again for your replies!!

Trev

 

how do you get into the high rpms without gettin even over a half throttle. the main abolsutely does need to be changed, just trying to understand how you climb and jump at such low rpms. maybe you should also change the needle to an adjustable one.

 

First thanks to mojave as I totally forgot to get into jetting, and if the main is not supplying enough fuel it will cause a loss of power from 1/2 to wot and make the top end feel "zingy" or like rpm without power etc.

I have never played with the gearing on my warrior and except that I was told it had a one tooth smaller or larger main sprocket when I purchased it all I know is that it seems to work very well with the 20x11x9 trail claws that were on it (and still are lol). Though this was the first quad I owned and prob wouldnt have really known if the gearing was wrong unless it was bogging etc but I have recently rode it and it was fine gearing wise (was scary in the turns compared to the ex and I wasnt used to two wheeling so easily etc).

After you get the jetting spot on and confirm the compression tell us what you find etc and then try the gearing change or vise versa but please do one at a time so you can understand what did what in case you need to make adjustments in the future.

Thats it in a nut shell. I still feel that your description of the problem seems more of running out of torque or power than that of gearing.


Agreed! a cam and valvetrain mod would be beneficial no doubt but if you dont want to tear into the engine (I dont know why everyone is so afraid of this since these things are not too complicated at all and the bs about longevity is just that BS) you should at least open up the air flow best you can (box mods or k&n etc) and get the jetting right.

Just to give a little idea on how much of a diff jetting can make. I had rode with some friends a couple months ago and they get this idea of a drag race, and well my machine just isnt set up for this and all (its set up for XC and a more linear power band etc) but figured WTF why not. There were some decent machines here from 416ex's to cannondales and a 310R and most are very heavily modded at min. Well to make this short the ole 440 did OK till 1/2 way thru third where it basically ran out of gas LITERALLY since it was jetted over ten numbers too low from the last ride in 95F heat. Was still fun but too bad I couldnt get a better idea on how it would do against such meavily modded quads that were better set up for drag racing (mostly mx except for one 416) etc. Well after a short stop at the trailers I decided to bump up the jetting from a 170main to 182 and the diff was beyond night and day. Even though we didnt actually line up again I could basically push, pass or just drive by pretty much any of the quads that were pulling away after second gear earlier, so jetting is beyond important.

I try to explain this to the younger guys I ride with and they just cant understand what it means to not be able to have mommy support and take care of you if you break yourself up good. But dont even begin to think your past your "adrenaline days" as you call it because I got you beat in years and have been known to talk to myself during the faster rides "dont do nothing stupid, go to get to work on monday" or your not 17 anymore" etc. Ride fast but use your head and be safe AKA know your limits.